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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:44 pm 
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I've been looking around the forum and the net, and have been considering picking up a set of 4 1992 GTi springs for my 2001 Swift. Research came up that the GTi springs are almost twice as firm as the regular mk2 or mk3 springs. They LOOK like they should drop in no problem from a picture of the two springs side-by-side. Anyone know if this will be the case or of any challenges I may run into?

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Quote:
Research came up that the GTi springs are almost twice as firm as the regular mk2 or mk3 springs

Where did you see this?
Your best bet is to cut your stock springs.
They will offer the best rate.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:59 am 
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i second that!!!!!!!!! :evil: super stiff!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:17 am 
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This was based off a rough test and measured as pressure/inch @ viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41920&start=0&hilit=electric+geo

image_id: 15711

I might just keep the stock springs if in the end they're the tallest and stiffest as the car will eventually be used for rally. :D

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:27 am 
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That information is not accurate.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Awww. Last time I trust a handwritten paper tag. :wink:

Thanks a lot!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:23 am 
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fordem wrote:
kaboler wrote:
Last year I replaced the driver's CV axle. This year, I replaced the driver's CV axle. That's when I realized that the springs were cut, and because of this, the springs can't entirely do their job, and my boots can hit my (dunno what you call the thing that has 2 bolts that you put the front wheel onto that holds the whole front end together).

Sucks. Now I have to nurse my car over speed bumps in parking lots etc, railway tracks scare me, etc etc etc.

But good luck with lowering your car an inch or two.


How about a picture - or if you like use paint or something to mark one of the ones in my album (there are some that show the front strut assembly on the second page) - the only thing I can think of under there matching that description is the knuckle, and I don't see how cut springs can cause the CV boot to hit that.


It's just the bottom of the strut. My spring can't take the load so if I hit a bump, the weight of the car fully lands on the shock, transfers to teh bottom, and bangs off my CV. Know what I mean?

I'm looking at buying some lowering springs. I have some bushes right here. I took my car in for a wheel alignment in the fall and they said they wouldn't work on my car because the springs were cut and basically almost floating (when jacked up of course, but they can't supply the same load-bearing qualities as uncut spring when under times of stress and impact).

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:35 pm 
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image_id: 5729

Take a look at this picture - this is my car with the OEM brakes, your suspension will be similar, but your brakes different.

The strut is bolted to the knuckle and moves with it - the drive shaft passes through the bearings in the knuckle and also moves with it - in short when the knuckle moves up an inch, so does the drive shaft, and so does the knuckle - the inner end of the drive shaft is fixed by the transmission so the angle at which the drive shaft sits changes as the knuckle moves up and down, but, because the strut also moves up and down - the drive shaft does not come close enough to the bottom of the strut for the two to make contact - AND - the distance between the two actually increases as the wheel moves up.

As long as the drive shaft is connected to the transmission - it is virtually impossible for the bottom of the strut to come into contact with the CV joint boot.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:35 pm 
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when cutting springs do they still fit back in there location tightly or can they fall out when extending suspension to its highest point?

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1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


Last edited by obaja on Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:17 am 
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Location: Kitchener, ON
I've run cut springs in the rear (3/4 turn I think) and they still fit snug. They're just that much easier to install.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:56 am 
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ive been thinking of dropping my 99 sedan but not sure yet of how i want to do it. i will be driving it year round,so i dont want it slammed. id like to cut them but i dont have all the tools to do so,and it would probably be just as cheap for me to buy say h&r springs and have them put in than it would be to bring it somewhere and have them take them out and cut them and put them back in. i also want to do the shocks aswell so kyb's will be going in.

this has been a nice topic,lots of good info and tips. nice job swifters! =)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:09 pm 
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All you need to cut the springs is a hacksaw (start with 1/2 coil). To remove & replace you need a jack, jack-stands, and a socket / ratchet set.

Blood, sweat and tears are extra. Getting dirty is free. : )


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:50 pm 
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hmmmm well maybe i do have the tools.....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:07 pm 
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If you have the tools it doesn't take much time to find out if you can do it.

1. Loosen wheel nuts (1/2 turn), jack up car, put on stands.
2. Remove wheel.
3. Try removing bolts.

... if you can get past the bolts, the rest is pretty easy. Remove, cut, replace.

If you don't have a service manual I can probably look up the necessary torque specs & pics for you but I know there's a bunch on this forum.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:35 pm 
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martinq wrote:
I've run cut springs in the rear (3/4 turn I think) and they still fit snug. They're just that much easier to install.



3/4 of a coil front and rear? How much did it lower your car?

In other words I want to cut my springs as much as i can without being stupid. I want the car LOW but not on the bump stops. How many coils is the maximum suggested for my 94 metro?

And i realize the rear needs about a half a coil more cut than the front to make it level. I do not want it raked.

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1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:18 pm 
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obaja wrote:
3/4 of a coil front and rear?

No, only the rear. The front has adjustable perch coil-overs. I've never cut the front springs.


obaja wrote:
How much did it lower your car?

I can't quite tell you this because I swapped the struts out and the new ones are gas-charged. The gas charge adds about 100+ lbs of force to each corner. I do recall driving with the old struts for a time and the difference was very noticeable. Do you have good / new struts? Gas charged?


obaja wrote:
In other words I want to cut my springs as much as i can without being stupid. I want the car LOW but not on the bump stops. How many coils is the maximum suggested for my 94 metro?

The best way not to be stupid is to be safe. Start with half a coil on the rear then trim the front down to match (or vice-versa).

Actually, I would start at the front. You don't want the front control arms to be parallel to the ground at rest, you should always have some downward slope from chassis to wheel knuckle for this type of strut suspension. Look under your car from the front end you should see both front control arms sloping down towards the wheels. As you lower, this angle reduces and this affects your camber response.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:34 pm 
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So here it is. I cut my front and my rear springs. Fronts i cut 1 coil and rears i cut 1 1/2 coils. 1 1/2 is too much for the rear for anyone that will be doing this in the future. If i jack the car up by the frame the rear springs almost fall out they are that loose. I can turn them with my hand no problem. So my suggestion would be 1 coil or 1 1/4 coils in the rear.

Almost no more body roll but the ride in the rear is definitely bumpier. I wasn't looking for comfort though since the factory ride was pretty bumpy too. Now if i turn the steering wheel the car goes exactly where i want it to instead of body roll then turn.

Total time to cut the springs was about 5 1/2 hours including half hour lunch and taking pictures and test driving.

The way i did it was first cut half a coil from the front, didn't notice a difference at all. Then cut 1 1/2 coils from rear. Then went back to the front and took another half of a coil off. I still think i need to take a half or quarter of a coil off the fronts since it is sitting a little bit higher than i would like. I can tell because the headlights are pointing up higher than when it was stock. For now i will drive it around like this and see how it is.

I didn't touch the bumpstops.

I had a tiny pull to the left with the alignment on the freeway and after i cut the springs now the alignment is straight :)

stock ride height
Image

Front lowered half a coil
Image

Rear lowered 1 1/2 coils
Image

Front lowered another half a coil, now its 1 in the front and 1 1/2 in the back
Image

Rear wheel stock height
Image

Rear wheel lowered height
Image

Front wheel stock height
Image

Front wheel lowered height
Image

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Marshall
1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:58 pm 
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Strut removed
Image

I supported the suspension arm with a jack so it would not put stress on the cv joints.
Image

For the other side i just used the wheel to support, perfect height.
Image

Strut out, Yes i have ac
Image

Stock spring sitting nicely in strut
Image

Likewise top of spring
Image

I was reading Diesel Power magazine and they were changing suspension on an f350 truck and bought this spring compressor to do it so i said hey, good idea. I realize its chinese harbor freight junk but it did the job and was only $12.99 :D *Part number is in lower left hand corner.
Image

I greased up the threads so they will last longer and make it turn easier.
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Mounted ready to be compressed
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Compressed
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Spring out
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Top of strut, bumbstop
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Kept all my parts organized
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Both front springs removed from strut
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Spring cut and put back in strut, notice how it doesn't sit all the way down now.
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1 1/2 coils cut from rear spring
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Bottom of rear spring after cutting, mounted
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1 1/2 coils is too much see, this is how loose it is up top
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View of top and bottom.
Image

And this is just to show you how much a difference half a coil is. Front coil, left is half coil cut, right is 1 full coil cut.
Image

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Marshall
1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:39 am 
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wow nice little write up. looks real nice.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:37 am 
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Thanks. It was fun doin it too.

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Marshall
1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Final height. Not going any lower. I wish the entire car was lower so the wheels would be slightly tucked in the fenders but that requires spending money on GOOD suspension and doing it correctly.

Took off another quarter of a coil from the front so it wouldn't have so much air gap on top of the tire. Now I'm satisfied.

This whole thing was free. Only thing i spent money on was a spring compressor $12.99.

Final height.
Image

Standard sized curb to compare height
Image


Image

Now heres a section showing my body work :)

Dent
Image

Another view of dent
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All gone
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top view, curve on bottom of picture is from fender starting to arch
Image

Not perfect but 100 times better than before, i couldnt stand it.
Image


Next dent that i need to fix, I will pull bumper and do it the right way.

Image

side view
Image

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Marshall
1994 Geo metro hatchback 1.0 M5. 214,000 miles. 3 Tech 365/222 cam, +10 cam gear, air intake piping to fender delete, tbi bridge delete, exhaust sidepiped before right rear tire, timing at 17 degrees, lowered 1 1/2 coils all around.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Location: Utah
Short cut: leave the struts on the car, compress the springs with the spring compressor, make the cut, release the springs. I cut mine on the car quicker than that using an ultra short cut.

BTW, in case the info got lost on here somewhere, you get more drop per coil cut on the rear of the 1995+ north american model. Start with cutting one coil front and 3/4 coil rear (source: Woodie). Results in a nice even "normal" height, not slammed, with much improved handling.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:38 am 
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So on my latest car, a 2000 2 door, I cut 1 coil from the fronts and 3/4 coil from the rears. Running 175-65-14 tires which are the same circumference as the stock 155-80-13's. The ride height turned out perfect, no butt sag that you get when cutting 1 coil all around.

Performance handling is great but if I'm alone in the car the ride is too rough for normal commuting. My wife says it's like driving a racing gokart, without the pesky acceleration. Maybe we're getting old. With the wife and two of our kids in the car the ride is much more comfortable and smooth.

Soon planning to try another set of stock springs, maybe with 1/2 coil cut from the fronts and 3/8 coil cut from the rears.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Pics?

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My garage.......http://www.teamswift.net/garage.php?mode=view_vehicle&CID=103
My personal gallery....http://teamswift.net/gallery/album.php?album_id=242
Currently driving a 1996 Geo Metro 1.0L
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:09 pm 
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(Photos can be found here. Cut and paste I guess, sorry about that.)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3830924/
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