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Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro
http://teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=59755
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Author:  fainya [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Lets see if this post disappears.
I have upgraded the front disk brakes to 99 nissan ultima front brakes.
Stock Geo front brake rotors 9" upgraded to 11" rotors
Geo caliper pistons 47 mm, upgraded to 57 mm.
I am showing a comparison of the stock Geo parts next to the new Nissan Ultima parts.
The ring on the nissan rotor is the spacer I had to build to center the new rotor on the Geo hub.
Other then the centering ring, nothing else has to be done to the rotors. The rotor are the same thickness as the
Geo rotors. The offset and heigth are the same as the Geo. Just a bigger center hole.
Attachment:
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The caliper mounting brackets took the most time to machine so they would fit onto the Geo spindles.
The centering and clearances of the caliper mounting brackets has to be right or parts rub and pads will bind.
After machining the 1st bracket, measure twice, cut once, the second bracket took half the time to do.
The cut where done so I get additional support of the nissan mounting bracket with the original mounting points on the spindle.
Mounting brackets had to be drilled and tapped to match up to the Geo spindles and mounting bolts.
This pictures show a before and after Nisson mounting bracket and how it was modified to fit the Geo.
Attachment:
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The Nissan calipers have a much larger piston 57 mm compared to the Geo 47 mm. This should give me more force on the disk
brake pads for better stopping. I did try the Honda calipers but did not like the fact that the calipers and the pads only touched
60% of the rotor. But the Honda mounting brackets would have been much easier to modify to fit. I wanted pads that used the entire rotor. So the Nissan calipers and mounting brackets where used.
Picture of the caliper piston differences.
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Old Geo Metro front brake set up with 12" rule for reference.
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New Nissan Altima front brake setup with 12" ruler for reference.
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Additional things
I used the Nissan flex brake lines. A small nub has to be ground off to get the flex lines into the mounting points.
All of the flex lines clip in place just like the Geo flex lines. Almost a plug and play setup.
When I bleed brakes after component replacement, I always pull the caliper bleeders and under pressure I back bleed the air
out of the system. Why? Air rises, it allows me to get new fluid at the caliper, and I can do it by my self without anyone
helping bleed the brakes.
I will finish up on the details for the 2nd side tomorrow. Then comes the road test.

Author:  Swift R [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

That looks pretty nice. Can I post what I'm working on here?

Author:  Swift R [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Coming soon

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Author:  Swift R [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Coming soon to YouTube

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Author:  Swift R [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

The most off the wall Swift build ever.

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Author:  pvr007 [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

You going to sell me the whole kit?
Image

Author:  BikeAmusPrime [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

I have been thinking of doing this too. How do the brakes feel?

Author:  Swift R [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Brakes not installed yet still working on suspension. Then track test, then brakes, then poor in the power. Will keep all posted.

Author:  fainya [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

On team swift it is ok to start your own thread. Not sure if you gays are aware of it or not?

Road tested the new brake system today. Less pedal effort to stop. Stopping distances have improved by 20% average.
No vibrations, rubbing or noises that I should not hear.
I need to get the new brakes broken in, so stay tuned for more results.
A few more pictures.
I was trying to show that there is still over a half inch of space between the caliper and the inside of the rim. This setup may
work on 14" wheels.
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A closer view
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Author:  Dattman [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

fainya wrote:
Lets see if this post disappears.

Strange way to start a post? why would it disappear?

fainya wrote:
On team swift it is ok to start your own thread. Not sure if you gays are aware of it or not?

Well thats a good start... a is nowhere near u on the keyboard.

I'm glad you're happy with your brake upgrade but in the land of litigation you'd have to be crazy to sell that package with the amount of meat you have machined off the bracket, have you changed your master cylinder to allow for the considerably larger front pistons?, I would expect your pedal to be a bit closer to the floor now.

For most people, doing a honda caliper swap and 250mm rotors will give a decent brake increase and is a bolt on proposition with the exception of the 1mm shims, if you want performance brakes then you can buy pre-made brackets so wilwoods bolt straight up, also helps reduce unsprung weight.

Swift R I would recommend starting your own thread instead of jumping on everyone elses...

Author:  top down@-40 [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Swift R wrote:
The most off the wall Swift build ever.

Planning on using the fenders as suspension stops? That's off the wall :shock:

Author:  fainya [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

The other brakes look really cool, but what do they cost?
After doing the California Rally the front rotors where blued from the heat. I have less then $150 in this brake upgrade. That includes new high carbon rotors $28 each, new ceramic brake pads with hardware $33, calipers and mounting brackets from the junkyard $40, caliper seal kits $19, and brake fluid $9. The brackets will be the weak link and I will keep an eye on them for problems. The Nissan brakes where designed to stop a 3,000 pound car. Our Geo's/Swift's only weigh half that.
As for the brake pedal travel, I see no difference.
I can't keep the rear brakes adjusted. They use that crappy designed ratchet adjuster. I have to pull up on the emergency brake handle 3 clicks to get the pedal to the top. I am so looking forward to GT rear brakes that I will get in April. So now I can start on getting a twin cam engine built. The last thing on the list for this car.

Author:  fainya [ Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

With further testing I noticed that when at a stop light with my foot on the brake, the engine ran rougher. Take my foot off the brake and the idle smoothed out. Power booster time. It is the original one that came with the car. Got a rebuilt booster, changed
it out. When I picked up the old booster to put it back into the box, I had about 6 ounces of fluid drain out of the vacuum side of the old booster.. Master cylinder time.
Do you know that locally I could not find a master cylinder rebuild kit? They no longer stock the rebuild kits, but they do stock
rebuilt master cylinders.
Sunday night update.
I got a new master cylinder while at the So-Cal rally. it was for an early suzuki. To make it work I had to change out the
reservoir with the 98 version.
Finally got the brakes bleed. With the new master cylinder and the new rebuilt power booster what a difference in how well
the brakes work. Very little pedal effort now to come to a quick stop, and the brake pedal is up at the top. I did have to adjust
the brake light switch to come on just as I touch the brake pedal. I am happy with the results of all my effort on this project.
I was also able to order a master cylinder rebuild kit online. It should be here next week. I will build the old leaky master cylinder
as a spare and shelf it for now.

Author:  DGR [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

That's a really nice upgrade, thanks for posting! :D

Author:  fainya [ Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Brake pads are finally starting to seat in.
The pedal is up at the top, the brake effort to stop the car is lite,
the stopping distances have decreased dramatically, no noise,
and a lot of confidence on stopping the car.
Upgrading the front brakes on our cars, it doesn't mater which way you go,
really makes a difference.

Author:  fainya [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Crap fell off a truck while going down the road. I was to close to avoid hitting it.
One thing I didn't think about was after upgrading the front brakes to larger that
the stock donut spare tire would not fit. I am off to the junkyard in the morning to get
an Altima donut spare tire to replace the Geo one.

Author:  DGR [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Everything ok, besides the tire?

Good point on the bigger spare btw! Never would've thought of that... Let me know if the altima spare works out for you. :D

Author:  aqqus [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

I have full size spares for both of mine. But good point to keep in mind if I upsize brakes.

Author:  fainya [ Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

I was able to repair the dent in the rim using my 20 ton hydraulic press.
Once finished the wheel spun true and with a new tire the wheel and tire balanced out at
0.75 ounces.
The bad news the right front wheel assembly sits back at least 1/2 inch further then the left
front wheel assembly.
I have replaced the spindle and I am waiting on the new lower control arm to show up.
I also replaced the upper strut thrust washer. I went from a plastic bearing cage thrust washer
to a steel cage thrust washer. The steel cage thrust washer is off of a Suzuki Sumari front strut.
I ordered and got 2 new thrust washer parts kits with the steel caged thrust washers.
The plastic ones do not hold up.

Author:  fainya [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

Hotrodray got me a complete GT rear disk brake setup. Spindles to emergency brake cables, it was all there.
Thankyou Hotrodray...
Rebuilt calipers, turn rotors, repack wheel bearings, new hardware,
new caliper pins and bellows, all bolt holes tapped, new crimp bolt for mounting the spindles to the shocks.
I was impressed with the larger size wheel bearings the GT rear brakes setup uses. They are the same size as the front wheel
bearings.
3228 shows what the brakes looked like before and after.

Attachment:
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3232 shows the completed rebuild of the rear brakes before installation. The GT rears got installed today minus emergancy
brake cables. The ones I got are not usable. (frozen)
I will modify the drum brake cable ends to work on the GT rear brakes. Pictures to follow.

Attachment:
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Author:  BikeAmusPrime [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

How many mm did you shave on the caliper brackets on the new setup? I am mounting up 15" wheels and want better brakes all around.

Author:  fainya [ Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

On the front Nisson Altima caliper mounting brackets about 0.400". I did not have to shim the calipers. I did take alot of metal
off, and because of the amount of metal removed, I can not offer this as a kit. My thinking is the altima brakes where designed
to stop a 3500 pound car. The Geo only weights in at 1600 pounds. So I took the caliper mounts down to what the Geo thickness
was.
On the rears disk brake setup, Hotrodray included GT spindles. The rears where remove old drum brakes with spindle, install
the GT disk brakes and spindles.

This morning I got the Emergency brake to work.
The e-brake cables that I got with the rear brake setup where frozen and unusable.
It took 2 eighth inch cable clamps that cost less then $2.00 to get the drum e-brake cables to work
with the GT rear disk brake setup. Now with the E-brake cables working I was able to get the calipers to adjust to get the
disk brake pads closer to the rotor. EI it brought the brake pedal up to where is should be.
3236 shows GT disk brakes, new KYB shocks, 2.25" exhaust, and Lift Kit air bags.

Attachment:
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Author:  Calrenman [ Thu May 14, 2015 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

This looks awesome!






fainya wrote:
On the front Nisson Altima caliper mounting brackets about 0.400". I did not have to shim the calipers. I did take alot of metal
off, and because of the amount of metal removed, I can not offer this as a kit. My thinking is the altima brakes where designed
to stop a 3500 pound car. The Geo only weights in at 1600 pounds. So I took the caliper mounts down to what the Geo thickness
was.
On the rears disk brake setup, Hotrodray included GT spindles. The rears where remove old drum brakes with spindle, install
the GT disk brakes and spindles.

This morning I got the Emergency brake to work.
The e-brake cables that I got with the rear brake setup where frozen and unusable.
It took 2 eighth inch cable clamps that cost less then $2.00 to get the drum e-brake cables to work
with the GT rear disk brake setup. Now with the E-brake cables working I was able to get the calipers to adjust to get the
disk brake pads closer to the rotor. EI it brought the brake pedal up to where is should be.
3236 shows GT disk brakes, new KYB shocks, 2.25" exhaust, and Lift Kit air bags.

Attachment:
IMG_3236.JPG

Author:  BikeAmusPrime [ Fri May 15, 2015 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

fainya wrote:
On the front Nisson Altima caliper mounting brackets about 0.400". I did not have to shim the calipers. I did take alot of metal
off, and because of the amount of metal removed, I can not offer this as a kit. My thinking is the altima brakes where designed
to stop a 3500 pound car. The Geo only weights in at 1600 pounds. So I took the caliper mounts down to what the Geo thickness
was.
On the rears disk brake setup, Hotrodray included GT spindles. The rears where remove old drum brakes with spindle, install
the GT disk brakes and spindles.

This morning I got the Emergency brake to work.
The e-brake cables that I got with the rear brake setup where frozen and unusable.
It took 2 eighth inch cable clamps that cost less then $2.00 to get the drum e-brake cables to work
with the GT rear disk brake setup. Now with the E-brake cables working I was able to get the calipers to adjust to get the
disk brake pads closer to the rotor. EI it brought the brake pedal up to where is should be.
3236 shows GT disk brakes, new KYB shocks, 2.25" exhaust, and Lift Kit air bags.


What booster and master cylinder are you thinking of. I was thinking of a Hyundai elantra myself. Im gonna go take some measurements next week. Im really excited in doing this myself.

Author:  ehtrain [ Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brake upgrade on a 97 Geo Metro

I've been thinking about doing some sort of brake upgrades to my 98 swift. It's getting chopped up as caged as an endurance race car.

Any idea what master cylinder your going to switch to?with that much size change in calipers your brake stroke must be tremendous and very spongy.

Also I notice my swift atleast has a brake perportioning valve external to the master cylinder. So 3.14x (radius squared)x psi should give u ur factory brake pressures. Likely an altima will have a 5/8 or larger bore. I specialize in nissan and there are many swaps in the older vehicles. But the master bolt spacing and center hole is WAY larger then the suzuki. I'm in favour of throwing the perportioning valve in the garbage to save weight. And use a real master.

Also I've been trying to do researching into rear disc. Do those 89-91 gti disc assemblies just bolt right up to the newer car? No alignment problems?

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