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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 10:42 am
Posts: 6
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
I use these cars for commuting purposes. The gas mileage makes my way of life possible. In Canada, it costs around $32 to fill a 94 Geo Metro fuel tank, and I can get 560km on that (350 miles roughly). That's roughly $11/day for about 2 hours of driving total/day, or 45mpg. So for years now, I've had several cars, and when they outlast their usefulness as a whole, I've been stockpiling useful parts I pull off, and the rest goes off to the scrap. All the cars I've had are MK2 style:

89 Chevy sprint, auto, 4door, dead engine, worn out tranny, engine/tranny removed, car still in yard
90 Chevy sprint, 5spd, 2door, dead engine, worn out tranny, engine/tranny removed, car scrapped.
90 Pontiac firefly, 5spd, 2door, rusty body but still useable, car still in yard and useable... but ugly.
94 Pontiac firefly, 5spd, 2door, body rusted beyond repair, pulled good parts, car scrapped.
94 Geo Metro, 5spd, 2door, all decent, swapped engine from ^^ this one, old engine kept for rebuild, my current commuter.
94 Geo Metro, 5spd, 2door. bad clutch, don't know much more, I just bought it today..

I'm noticing the 94 Geo metros seem to be the most abundant in my area. I can pick them up for dirt cheap with a minor issue I can fix, then drive it. All I've ever had go wrong on them (engines) is burnt valves, Idle air control valves, oil leaks, and timing belts.

My question is:

Will the first 3 cars' engine block/head actually close enough to work in a 94 metro? Will all the rest bolt on? Or am I in for a surprise or two after rebuilding it? Really, I've got enough of these engines that I could just scrap them.

Thanks in advance..


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11498
Location: columbus, ohio
all of the g10 3 cylinder engines are the same from 89 thru 94 with the only differences being in the engine management control sets. you can remove the intake manifold with all the sensors and throttle body from the engine coming out and reinstall it on the engine going in with no problems.

the g10 engines from 95 thru 2000 will work in the older models as well but they have a crank sensor with oil pans and oil pumps made to work with the crank sensor. you can drop a newer engine in, too, as long as you use the intake manifold, throttle body, and sensor compliment that matches the wiring and ecu of the car accepting the engine swap.

mechanically, on the long block about the only physical change is the valve cover. from 92 on they used an improved vapor condensor in the valve covers that have ribs on top. the older engines used a blocky, square looking valve cover. use the newer valve cover when you can.

about the only other thing to be aware of is that the xfi models used different pistons and 2 rings (gapless compression and a 3 piece oil control ring) while the base models used 3 rings (2 gapped comprssion rings and the same 3 piece oil control ring.) i prefer the standard engine over the xfi engine. the standard engine is rated at 55 hp and the xfi is rated for 49 hp. because of the ring arrangement most of the xfi blocks have ovaled and tapered bores. that's not to say that a standard g10 block will have better bores, the engines are infamous for worn cylinder bores if they have had a service life of over around 90,000 miles.

the last 2 engines i built both had out of spec bores. on the first engine i had the bore liners pulled, replaced, and bored to oem spec for 74mm pistons. on the second engine i had a 40 thousand over bore and used 75mm pistons from a suzuki vitara engine as replacements. i'm just including this info as a way of telling you that you will have to pay attention to machining if you rebuild one. most of these engines aren't reliable if they are rebuilt with just a quick cylinder hone and new rings.

anyway, that's the deal. you can swap in any g10 engine from 1989 thru 2000 as long as you use the ecu, wiring, sensor set, and throttle body/manifold from the car that's getting the engine. the sensor set includes the distributor as they used different ignition modules. in the 94 model year there was a half year line change where the controls shifted to the newer, improved emissions type. you can tell if you have the improved emissions set by identifying the black idle control motor on the bottom/ rear of the throttle body. you can also verify it by whether it has an old oil can coil or a newer air core coil.

there has been an awful lot written about g10 engine replacement so check the dedicated mk2/ mk3 g10 section. drill down through the threads and you will find a lot of info on these cars here on teamswift.net. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1280
Location: Alberta, Canada
Another minor difference is the timing belts, 89-91 have square teeth, 92-94 have round teeth. Easy to swap pulleys to ensure you have things matching. Something to be aware of, although you've likely come across this already, sometimes parts places will hand you the wrong belt, or engines have been swapped in the past.
With all due respect t3, the engines respond perfectly to a hone and ring job, regardless of cyl wear. Having done it on hundreds and doing follow up maintanence on most of them for the rest of the cars lives, I've seen it work enough to know its awfully effective. That said, boring with new pistons is certainly the best solution.
If I were in your situation, I'd find a nice clean body, best you can. Then take one of your engines with a burned valve and no other issues, pull it, rering it, new timing belt, waterpump, rebuild head with new exhaust valves. Reassemble and install, new clutch if needed. You should be able to do this entire project including car purchase for about $1000. I've found once you have the engine stuff out of the way, the cars become incredibly reliable and nearly indestructible. The second gear synchro issue is the only other weak spot really, other than minor chassis stuff and of course rust. Dont expect windows to work. Lol

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11498
Location: columbus, ohio
cody, i've done my share of quick and dirty repair/ rebuilds on these, too. that's what most people opt for anyway. you know these cars are abused - and i have been amazed at the abuse they can withstand.

the engines are thrashed for thousands of miles with poor maintenance, no oil changes, and little more than what it barely takes to keep them on the road.

that was my point when i was suggesting that a proper rebuild back to as close to oem spec was the best option. you can roll another 100,000 miles on a good rebuild with regular oil changes and maintenance.

i don't have 100s of these engine rebuilds under my belt but the dozen or so i have tackled at least got the benefit of my experience as an engine builder and machinist. when i take on projects there are very few of them that i don't put my best effort into. =)

whenever i sort of turn my head and don't take measurements on an engine and just break the glaze on the cylinders and slap some new rings in i'm surprised the g10 engines make it another 10,000 miles. then again, i did a really quick and dirty repair on a g13 8 valve without taking one measurement, using a piston assembly from a junkyard car, and after about 5 years i still see the guy who drives it going to work in the morning. :wink:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 10:42 am
Posts: 6
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Thanks for the replies guys. Any and all opinions are welcome with me. Perhaps it's just coincidence, but I find all of these engines seem to lose an exhaust valve on me just after the 300,000 kilometer mark (190,000 miles). So the bore and hone is likely the method for me. But I have so many engines at this point, I'll likely measure and try a re-ring first.... because I'm cheap, or economically smart, depending if you ask my wallet, or my wife. If a re-ring job only lasts 10,000 miles, I'll know in about 4 months, as my commute is pretty long.

I have run into the timing belt issue as predicted, but I didn't notice the tooth shape difference. I just thought one had 1 or 2 more teeth. Good to know. I've also noticed on the earlier models, the crank balancer pulley is held on by 4 bolts, and the 94 models has 5.

As for swapping engines, I've only had to do it once, because the cars are so cheap, I usually just buy another, strip all the good parts off the old one, and scrap it. One I bought because it had a good engine, but the front suspension horn rotted off, so I just bought it for the engine.. I had already purchased my current car (same year) with a good body, new tires, but a burnt exhaust valve. I did the head rebuild without a re-ring and.... OIL BURNER!!! You saw that coming.... So I just swapped in the other engine. So far, it's got me another 50,000km.

Anyway, thanks for the advice..

Cheers..


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