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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Emissions testing...

Lowdown on the car
driven hard
compression 175-180 across the board
put back stock ecu, stock maf, stock air intake with all the emission controlls hooked up
only real mod is the 240/310 mike's cams
from what i can tell from the readings i'm going to replace the o2 (about 4 years old) and the cat (cat is 4 year old aftermarket thats been driven hard and dirty with sandros chip)

new airfilter
new pcv valve
new plugs cap rotor
engine seafoamed a few days before the test
fresh oil change

READINGS:

DRIVE TEST - IDLE TEST
limit - reading limit - reading

HC (ppm) 89 284 (fail) 200 1425 (fail)

CO% 0.51 6.43 (fail) 1.0 0.49 (pass)

NO (ppm) 708 287 (pass) NA NA

dilution 17.7 ?? 14.7

any ideas?

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:45 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Check this out:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56.pdf

A couple of things come to mind.

CO is high (is to the left of stoichiometric), so your Air/Fuel ratio is on the 'rich' side
(you are sending unburned fuel through the engine/wasting gas).

I would not blame the cam, but check the fuel delivery system.
If something is holding your injector(s) open too long, it might be a simple electrical fix.

Seafoam is a hydrocarbon.
If you pour it down the throttle body while holding the throttle open, it will deposit along the
catalytic converter and eventually burn off, but may take quite a while.
So, you might consider holding off on seafoam just prior to an 'Air Care' exam.

Again, I'm no expert, but she's on the rich side. The high HC confirms it.
Best to read the article which is has a comprehensive set of possibilities to check.
They zero in on electrical (spark) issues, and your compression seems to confirm it is one of the bolt on systems, and not the internals of the engine.
Actually, you can read on the chart and plot the exact place your engine is.
It looks like a minor thing.

If you get that HC in line, the other readings will probably fall in place.

Almost forgot:
Out here, a dilution error points to leaky exhaust.

These emissions tests challenge even the best of mechanics,
but unlike a dyno are repeatable from machine to machine.
If you get it to pass, and she burns clean, there is a great deal of self satisfaction.

Keep in mind the CO.
Tune it with the CO, and then you'll know you are at stoichiometric, as the CO curve is very reliable.
That's why I use one of those Heathkit CO gas analyzers prior to taking a car to the test.
They are a LOT cheaper than a 5 gas analyzer, easily stored, and give you a pretty good idea about whether it will pass or not.

Here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50941
are some typical 5 gas results for a normal engine.
(Sorry, they aren't all that readable... :oops: )
3 cylinder or 4, they should put out these types of results.
You'd think a 4 cylinder would put out 25% more smog.
That is not true.
They put out almost EXACTLY the same amount of smog, and the limits are almost the same.

If you can find the leaky injector, or leaky throttle body, or whatever is causing the rich burn condition, the engine will really respond when you switch it back to the Sandro's Chip.

Always look at your CO2.
It is easy to remember, just like stoichiometric, right around 14 to 1.
Image
(Notice my engine - it is also HIGH HC, but still within the legal limits...)

You asked for 'thoughts'.
I 'think' you are fine tuning your mechanical abilities when you attempt to pass Air Care.

Most guys have a problem with NOx.
They take FOREVER to solve it.
You've got a simple HC problem.
Go for it!

Best of luck.

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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:42 am 
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Cams are probably going to have to come out. as long as it's loping on idle like that, there's too much raw fuel in the exhaust. Andy told me he got his to pass like that, but I don't know how.
My numbers are almost identical to yours. I'm putting stock cams in, new cat, bumping the timing up to 10 degrees, and retesting it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:30 am 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Thats what I thought Mike, when I was talking to Andy he said he had no problem.
Gotta find a stock set of cams now... :blackeye:

THanks Phil, thats some good info as I know nothing about emissions

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Location: Brinkworth, UK
Phil N Ed wrote:
Almost forgot:
Out here, a dilution error points to leaky exhaust.


You may be onto something, if there is an air leak before the cat it will cause the O2 to read lean and the ECU will add fuel.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I put stock (i think) cams back on (they might be cultus).
New o2, new cat (walker)

timing set at 6deg

new numbers:

DRIVE TEST _______- IDLE TEST
limit - reading _______ limit - reading

HC (ppm) 89 89 (pass) _______200 36 (pass)

CO% 0.51 0.07 (pass) _______ 1.0 0.00 (pass)

NO (ppm) 708 18 (pass) _______ NA NA

dilution 15.3 _______ 14.9

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93 Swift GT White 3Tech cams, Sandro's chip, Lightned flywheel, Genie exhaust, Cultus header, Intrax springs.
02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:09 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Your NOx and carbon monoxide are basically null.
Good job.

The stock cams may have allowed you to pass your test, but I'm thinking that HC is pretty bad.
If you can fix that, and then put the ground cams back in, she should fly.

What do you think is causing the high HC?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:16 am 
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He passed. Those numbers are good. A few more degrees timing at idle will drop those numbers. His HC at 40 km/hr is almost nothing.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I beat the hell out of it before I took it in
as per the etest guy, the cat takes a little bit to wear in. (he thought it was just the new cat that was causing the high(ish) HCs, I only drove it about 30km before the etest (brantford to hamilton).

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:10 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
I hope you didn't do something stupid like a fellow on (...insert name of another web site here...)
who installed a performance cam, a new catalytic converter and STILL couldn't pass his basic exam.

Turns out the IDIOT had installed a 160 degree thermostat, so his HC was in the 220 range.
:screwball: :screwball: :screwball:

Why?
(and I quote)
"...for better internal environment..."
whatever that means.
Next they'll be blaming the cam grind.
:WTF:

Anyways, it was good for a laugh while having a cup of Java this morning and putting ice packs on my knees from last night.

Image

I've got to either find new bed partners

:oops: :oops: :oops:

... or a new position.

:thumb2: :thumb2: :thumb2:

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:21 am 
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Phil N Ed wrote:

Image



oh boy, you've sold me on your yellow fever. maybe it's contagious. her knees may get sore for sure.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:56 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
They go with me everywhere.
You can imagine the looks I get.

The one one the right is Closed Loop.
In the hot Summer, it's all Closed Loop.
She likes the A/C on full blast and all the windows closed.
Then, she'll take input everywhere.
Yeah, she's got legs and knows how to use 'em.
Oxygen sensor, engine running HARD (she likes it hard), thermostat open, and Closed Loop trims the fuel down real lean.
But she isn't selfish.
She lets her pudgy sister take charge first.

That would be Open Loop.
Open Loop, on the other hand likes the same thing over and over, no matter how hard I try.
She's a real gas.
Right off the bat, Open Loop takes charge until I'm good and warmed up.
Then, when I'm sweating, she backs out and turns me over to her sister.

I'm getting kinda old for them,
Image
(Open Loop is the fat one on the left...they swapped earrings for the photo. :P )
but they like to share.

What I can't figure out is why Closed Loop only works when the thermostat is open.
Maybe it has something to do with the angle of the dangle being proportional to the heat of the meat?

Anyway, don't try to pass your 'emissions test' with a 160 thermostat, eh?

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:01 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
While you're thinking about Open and Closed Loop, consider the alternative:
Image

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
While you're thinking about Open and Closed Loop, consider the alternative:
Image



Fruit Loop?

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:10 pm 
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i ain't even going there, guys. :-P

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
sorry Tommy.



CERTIFIED!

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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