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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
97 swift , 1.3 auto 2 dr


Hi All. Well i got a lot of really good info on here but i finally found myself stuck and i caved and took it to the shop, where they are stuck.

My little swift hummed along just fine, then , one day after driving back and forth delivering courier work. No start, just as if you pulled the coil wire. Cranking super healthy and lots of battery power. just no start, then Always, after less than a few minutes. starts....just fine

so i checked the plugs and changed them and looked for loose connections.
i then loaned the car to the wife to drive and she only had the problem once in a month.
when i got it back , as soon as i drove it hard, no start on occasion and after the first no start, it would happen more often the same day

i then thought , wel im pulling in fast and stopping and shutting the motor off all at once very fast, maybe its a fuel pressure thing and i need to let it catch up and idle for a few seconds and then shut it off.

After i i would let it idle 15 seconds , it would NEVER do this.

That until the other day, , went over a bump, hesitation, stall, restart. then fine , the next day a sudden stop, then stall, then 5 minutes later , no start ever again.

even at the begging there was spark when it wouldnt start

I replaced the plugs, fuel filter

when it stopped for good i checked the fuel pressure, perfect, healthy spark but no spray or signal to the injector.

the mechanic looked at it and hooked it up to the new fangled scope and said there was no signal from the computer and i need a computer

today, i found the exact same compute at the wrecker in a healthy looking, not soaked, car that was there only a week, and , same thing , the computer swap helped nada.

I mentioned there is a bundle of wires grounded behind the throttle body that can be problematic. he didnt take it off but took a mirror and felt the wires and examined them , i loaned a jumper wire and we jumped the hex nut to ground, nothing

any ideas would great, as he is going back to maybe a crank sensor ? or replacing the throttle body.

i should point out the obvious, he;s more of a tug and replace guy than a diagnostician, hence why i try to most things myself

help!

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:18 am 
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Do you have a timing light?

Are you getting spark? (expect the answer is no)

Go back to the coil and check voltages
Check the earth wire off the coil. It is earthed to the gbox...


#one step at a time.

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:08 am 
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Location: Vancouver
Perfectly healthy spark. Even when the issue started. Double checked it . car will run with fuel sprayed directly. The scanner show's no signal from computer. Not sure if that's no fuel injector signal. That's what prompter the mechanics semi sure diagnosis of a a bad ecm. Sorry I wasn't more clear. I hear the grounds should not be given up on as a possibility?!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Fuel issue.

Can you hear the fuel pump?
check the pump fuse. Could be a bad contact there.

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I have had similar issues with 2 of the 1.3 8v cars. Both landed up being a problem at the injector. I replaced the injector with a used one and all was fine. Sidekicks and trackers do it occasionally as well. Do you for 100% certain have no injector pulse when you test with a proper noid light designed for that specific test?
Computer failure is incredibly rare, Crank sensor failure sure isn't common, but i would lean towards that vs ECM issue.
If you have the means to locate a complete used throttle body for a reasonable price I'd go that route first if it doesn't do it consistently enough to accurately diagnose.

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:37 pm 
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it much more possible that there is a failure of a mechanical nature of a wire in the harness. the age of the cars involved and light nature of the wiring has been catching up and i have seen work hardened copper wires break inside their insulating jackets - impossible to see during a visual inspection.

just on either side of the big gromett in the firewall where the loomed harness passes through are good locations for vibration and temp cycled conductor breaks.

it's a tedious job of work to "ring" each wire in the harness to check continuity but if you can use logic to deduce the malfunction and read wire colors and pin out connections for specific circuits you can check the injection circuit wiring to rule out a broken wire.

you may also have a corroded connector and sometimes something as easy as disconnecting and reconnecting a connector cleans the pins enough to correct a problem.

you should have a gray connector on the side of the throttle body that runs to the injector. take a good look there and blow the greasy crap out of the connectors on both sides (the tbi and the wiring.)

i know how you feel about the problem. i had a vert once that had pretty much the same random starting failure and it seemed to jam me up at the most inopportune moments. i shot gunned parts at that beast until i finally did a complete system swap from a 3 banger to a twincam to get rid of the demons. :lol:

so, get a wiring diagram, get a factory service manual, use the troubleshooting matrix, and do the on car service checks. stay at it, maintain a logical process and you'll run the problem down. remember this, in a complex system the root failure will usually be a simple thing. it's human nature to blame the things in the complex system that we understand the least. the ecu falls into that category but in reality the ecu is more reliable (being solid state) than any of the mechanical bits. the odds are that you will find something stupid that's causing your trouble. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Sorry didnot read the whole thread
but it is a 97
and if you haven't recon, the fuse block
that would be your smoking gun they are great cars but that fuse block design Blows

And................also the large lug under the hood on the drivers side fender is a week spot
.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=52619
.
.
.

_________________
.

t3 ragtop wrote:
the 3 banger isn't at all a "grenade." it's a tough little son of a bitch doing a big job. respect it.
suprf1y wrote:
I didn't save anything.Vehicles are to me, like little boys are to Tommy.Toys to be abused for my own personal pleasure.
jrjd wrote:
"Driving a Swift GTi is like driving a bike in your house".


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:05 pm
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Location: Vancouver
Thanks so much to everyone for the excellent advice. Unfortunately since I had it towed to a mechanic who only likes to re and re parts , I kinda got myself into this.

To update I got a call today that now he has a signal to the "outside" at the throttle and just not to the injector or " in side" at the end of the conversation after I tried to understand how he went from NO signal to the injector to an "outside" - whatever he meant by that - signal he added that today he would remove the two screws that hold the injectors electrical contact in place and test it. Something He told me he did and i obviously thought he would have done in the first 20 minutes.

So, the information regarding " no signal " has troublesome accuracy. but I think ill put in an injector and give it a try . He would like an entire throttle body, but i haven't heard much about entire throttle body s being necessary. From there I think ill check for grounds and making sure there are no compromised wires.

probably end up towing to my home if the injector replacement fails.

only had it towed there as it stalled out in traffic and i was stranded and freezing. guess i shouldnt always second guess myself thinking its beyond my abilities . As almost everyone has posted...one step at a time in logical order. spraying parts on and paying someone to do it is just silly

Again , I cant thank everyone enough, being born long before the internet age Im particularly never tired of how amazingly quick many people can see and read about any kind of issue and help each other. i really thankful

thanks

Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
I am having a similar issue with my '94 GTi, except that my ecu is code free. I am in the process of replacing my fuel pressure regulator since the fuel pressure on idle was way over what the manual said it ought to be.

I suggest you get a noid light tester and check the injectors for signal. Check also the 12v signal from the starter to coil circuit...its the wire that goes to the spade connector on the starter.

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Certified Suzuki Owner:
MKIII Swift GTi - The Green Destiny!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Location: Vancouver
Problem solved! :D

Turns out this was the issue of an unscrupulous mechanic than anything else

I got the feeling he was just guessing and telling me he had no signal from the computer and sure enough it wasn't the computer and as I posted recently he left me an odd message telling me he was now getting a pulse " outside" but not at the injector. Turns out he never removed the injector as he first said

Ihe asked for a new throttle body. I thought that may be to justify doing more work and covering antytjing attached to the t.b.

So I got an injector, put it in myself and it fired right up and drove away
I refused to pay him a cent and oddly he seemed to expect that or perhaps , not oddly.

So yes problem solved, however it was 120 miles e9und trip to get the computer I didn't need and 60 for a throttle body I didn't need and 5 days of a rent car plus towing 17 miles

So I certainty learned a lesson. Given the excellent thoughtful and precise advice I received her. I'm definitely tackling it myself next time. You people have been amazing, and it really helps to know your not alone and there always is a solution
A huge thank you to everyone and I really hopes this helps someone else who has an intermittent no start
Thanks
Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
Hello everyone...
I'm going to try that as well
I got a similar problem with a 1999, 16 valve 1.3 Swift

I'm going to change the injectors and see if that fixes it


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:12 am 
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In your case, I doubt it Blaster. Four injectors did not go bad all at once.

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The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Blaster, does you car have the 16V multi port fuel injection system (MPFI) , or the Asian market 16V with Throttle Body Injection (TBI)?

See picture below for a 16V with TBI

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:53 am 
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Location: Puerto Rico
A multi-port fuel injector system

I've had the head rectified, changed the fuel pump, changed the piston rings, added a fuel filter (did not come with factory built one).
The main fuel line leaked yesterday as the car started and ran for a few seconds.
I repaired the leak and NOW the car back-fires through the intake without starting
It makes me think that there is an injector or 2 not working well, it seems that the main pressure might be affecting the performance.

I'm running out of options here...

Engine backfire is caused by an imbalance in the air-to-fuel ratio of the vehicle. Backfires occur in one of two places. A backfire in the intake manifold is caused by a ratio that is too lean (not enough fuel)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:44 am 
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A backfire through the intake is a timing problem. You've got a spark plug firing while the intake valve is open.

Does the dowel that locates the cam sprocket to the cam point straight down at the crank when the crank is aligned to TDC?

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
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The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:46 am 
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Wait a second! Your spark plug wires are on wrong! Cylinders one and four are driven by one coil, two and three are driven by the other.

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10 Suzuki Kizashi


The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

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