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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
Spent 3 hrs today.

I cut 2 ribs off the pulley to clear the frame.
here we have 3 choices:
1. cut out of the middle like a Vw Bug. hard to do but keeps the belt on!
2. cut off the side nearest the fins. what if they touch the belt!
3. cut off the front and see if the belt stays on. check with me later.. :D

image_id: 16711
note the recess on the back. there is a thick washer that goes in there.

I had to square up my previous cuts so the flange would mate.
image_id: 16712

removed more from the flange's bottom.
image_id: 16714

Be sure to protect the wires and terminals.
image_id: 16713

This fits the old connector well
image_id: 16719

The fins still touch the water pump pulley so just bend them in a bit -- dont cut them.
image_id: 16715

The old 32" belt will not work. I got a 32.5" called 325K4 (4 ribs)
image_id: 16718

There is 1/2" room if the belt stretches. they say they dont but the one i took off said 32.0 and measured 32.25"
image_id: 16716

No washers were necessary (but good to have around)
I will put the dipstick and bolt in later. :D
image_id: 16717

This is using the Mk3 GT stock upper and lower mounts.
And a somewhat modified GM alternator from
(1992-1993) Buick Century, Skylark 3.3L
(1992-1993) Oldsmobile Achieva, Ciera 3.3L
(1992-1993) Pontiac Grand Am 3.3L

105 Amps at 14.7 Volts
LOOK OUT WORLD !


edit May 26, 2009:
Surprised how dirty it gets back there so i made a bracket to extend the plastic shield for the larger GM alt.
image_id: 16757 image_id: 16758 image_id: 16759 image_id: 16760

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looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


Last edited by xrw44 on Tue May 26, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
:idea:
I will post my GM measurements later. This will may help the Mk2 Metro folks determine if they can use the stock mounts by comparing to their stock alternator.

These are from a 91 Metro. They are different than Mk 3.
image_id: 16721 image_id: 16722 image_id: 16724 image_id: 16725

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Location: Hamlet , North Carolina
:thumbsup: :goodpost: :salute: :sunny: I think xrw44 has done a Great Post and write up and this deserves to be a STICKY !! GREAT JOB AGAIN


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Thanks,
this thread is ... um ... a work in progress, and things were proposed that didnt work out so
I'd say we have 2 or 3 How To's
1. the MK1 Sprint
2. the GT and 95+ metros (i suspect)
3. then you will do Mk2 metro if it is different. :alien:

I can make my posts into a How To. after some testing which can take weeks on an unregistered car. :lol:

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Location: Hamlet , North Carolina
well I have a mk2 and mk3 soo happy joy joy joy


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:17 am 
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belt stays on
no wobble
14V at idle
that is impressive.

usefull in stoplight city
and at night with high beams on most cars barely chg the battery.
I think this 105A will charge like the stk with lights off.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:43 am 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
I am not very concerned with a smaller pulley.
the Alt pulley circumference is 7".
the crank pulley circumference is 18".
The ratio of engine to alt is 2.7 :1.

Say engine idle is 900 rpm.
So the Alt is doing 900x2.7 = 2430 rpms
From the CS130 performance graph,
download/file.php?id=10386
at 900 engine idle the 1992 GrandAM alternator can make 80A at 14V and 1120W.

but it is limited by a 60A fuse link !
Has anyone upgaraded the wiring AND link???????

When driving at 1500 rpm there is 100A available.
When driving at 3000 rpm there is 105A available
Lots for lighting and stereos! :D

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
Attachment:
AltDim.jpg

The stock mounts go to the right of G and A.
To use the same mounts we just have to cut and grind the GM alt to match CA and CG, as I did above.

Here are the GT measurements for 1989-94
(parts house says 1995+ Metros use the same Alt.)
CH = 0.750"
HG = 0.650"
CG = 1.400"

CD = 0.710"
DA = 0.802"
CA = 1.512"

4 rib pulley

Here are the Mk 2 Metro measurements for 1989-91
CH = 0.805"
HG = 0.510"
CG = 1.315"

CD = 0.976"
DA = 0.645"
CA = 1.621"

3 rib pulley

The Mk2 and 2 pulley diameters are the same.

The GM's CH = CD = 0.710"

So for the GT we
make HG = CG-CH = 1.400 - 0.710" = 0.690"
and
make DA = CA-CD = 1.512 - 0.710" = 0.802"

So for the Mk2 Metro we
make HG = CG-CH = 1.315 - 0.710" = 0.600"
and
make DA = CA-CD = 1.621 - 0.710" = 0.911"

These are approximate (Sp. ed.), so you may have to fine tune with a file and washers. The critical goal is to make the pulley line up with the water pump pulley.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


Last edited by xrw44 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:21 pm 
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There is one problem I see with cutting the alternator to fit..... If you buy one from a parts store and cut it up, you have no more warranty. That's why I designed my mounts to accommodate the alternator as-is. I know that my setup is different from the GT, but there should be a way of getting it to fit without cutting the alternator. Just my 2 cents...

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1993 Geo Metro Only mods so far are a Honda short shifter, Glowshift tach and a 3a Racing ricer muffler (freebie)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:02 am 
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My used $18 Alt came with a 30 day warranty. After cutting it, if I filled it smooth, no one would know unless a new one was set beside it.

Suppose I paid Autozone $140(+30 core) for a new one with real Lifetime warranty. Chain store guys here do not examine cores to see if it is the same model. Usually I buy the new, replace the old one and return the old one (in the new box as they require). The store guys just look at the receipt and in the box for an alternator, caliper, starter, whatever. And refund what i paid the day before.

I have occasionally returned other models and even once a caliper with tab cut off. Never heard back from them and they have my info. I have done warranty returns for 15 yrs with multiple guys at multiple branches. They expect some cores to be damaged and they can use parts off it. A small store that does their own rebuilding may check closer. Of course if I walked in with the cut one and asked for replacement they will set the new beside it and see the difference.

Sure we could cut and weld new brackets. Not all of us weld so there goes $30-50.
Where are the plans for the upper AND lower brackets for the welder? If he has to design it to the car, the cost will be for AT LEAST 2 additional hrs. Here in my little town that is $60 ea. In Atlanta that is $90 ea. :( :( :(

Or anyone with a ruler, hacksaw and file can modify the GM Alt. in one hr :D :D :D
now that I have given the dimensions.

I dont have a Mk1 alt but it can be measured as I did above and the GM modified accordingly.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
interesting thread, im thinking about upgrading soon as I think my stocker is only at 50% health, thanks for the posts

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1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:48 pm 
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me i fit an alternator from supra 87 and we just need tu rub the lower braket a little bit to put them in place. same connector but inverted diagram so it works well but the charge light is always on.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:19 pm 
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morinj04 wrote:
me i fit an alternator from supra 87 and we just need tu rub the lower braket a little bit to put them in place. same connector but inverted diagram so it works well but the charge light is always on.

how many Amps?

sounds like the 2 small wires are swapped.
If you want to fix it, you can
1. get another plug (from someone like me) and make it into an adapter.
or
2. modify your harness
or
3. try to remove the wires from the plug and swap them.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
I dont think the charge light should be on at any time the system is active... its a sensing circuit

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:20 am 
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Location: drummondville
the guy that sell me the alt, said to me 75 amp. i'm not sure but with the gt alt the light was flashing with my sub 450w and nothing else was on. now all on ,(defrost, fog, heater, inside lamp, floor lamp, high beam, and i just buy new amp and sub 1400w ) and all go right no flashing light volt are steady to 14.4 14.3
this amp done is job well for me
for the light you tell me the wiring ? i ask a alt dealer and he tell me that the board inside the alt is not the same logic comparatively to the gt, it's the reason why the light is always on. he tell me too the if i cut the light wiring the alt don't charge well because the alt need a little voltage difference between the 2 wire.

also the drl don't work any more. i think it's the alt in cause ( i saw in wiring sheet that the drl is connected to drl) maybe to shut off when alt light come on ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:24 am 
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Yes the light is a necessary part of the sensing circuit.
The Alt will not work without a good working light.
The light comes on when the Alt is not producing enough current to meet the demand put on yje battery.
You might see 14V and be getting 75A from the Alt but you might be demanding over 75.
When the light comes on it is saying that more power is being taken from the battery than the alt is producing.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Location: California
I hate to bump such an old post... But man am I confused... :huh:

I want to upgrade the alternator in my '95 4 door geo metro, 1.3 liter engine(mk3?), But I'm seeing 3 different ways to do it? then on top of that I am seeing different methods for mk2, mk3, etc...

Anyone care to help me decipher what the route to go is?

Thanks,
Ben


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:47 am 
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Location: Atlanta,GA Havana,Cuba
@bendr i just got bracket(mk3,4 moved it(marked measurement)weldit! it's so easy to mod the lower bracket!there's lot's of how to on this post!!!! super easy!


xr44 your the mann! ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Bendr wrote:
I hate to bump such an old post... But man am I confused... :huh:
I want to upgrade the alternator in my '95 4 door geo metro, 1.3 liter engine(mk3?), But I'm seeing 3 different ways to do it? then on top of that I am seeing different methods for mk2, mk3, etc...
Anyone care to help me decipher what the route to go is?
Thanks,
Ben

Can you weld or want to pay $50-100 per hr? Then make a custom bracket.
Can you measure and cut accurately? Then modify the Alt to match your bracket.
This is a project for "handy" people,
or people with lots of $$$$$ to pay others.
:alien:

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
While I am here, I'll give a status report.
The GM Alt has worked flawlessly. :D
The only issue is occasionally when cold the belt will squeal for 10-40 sec. :(
The tension is correct and there is rubber dust on the frame,
so the pullies are off slightly?
I've been too busy to test fit washers on the brackets to shift the Alt In/Out.
I suspect the belt and pulley will show more wear on one side.
:alien:

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:08 am 
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That's exactly how the stock alternator behaves, perfectly reasonable to expect a larger one to do the same thing. More output means more drag on the belt.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:30 am 
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Location: walsh,alberta,canada
try a thin washer behind pulley to move it out?funny note here-a pro mechanic put a factory alt on a geo,used a new pulley but put the washer behind it,not under the nut-belt squealed,rubber dust on frame-it looked straight,but off just enuf to squeal and eat belts,mechanic blamed it on the car,said it was poor import quality,no real way to fix...charged her 600 bucks,would not fix properly- a case of beer and one hour later i fixed it for her.he charged 400$ for alt,$200 to install. :oops: asshole! BTW,i might try your alt remedy for my t-fly,little one just isnt enuf for my needs.nice write-up,good post :D

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3 tech 6*gear
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3 tech cylinder head/w/port,polish,blend,oversized s/s valves
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89 white gti twincam....need I say more?
92 metro aka ''blue lump of coal''
92 white metro lsi vert
91 blue chevy sprint (gas sipper)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:43 pm 
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I checked with an amp clamp the other day, idle, 200w of forward lights on + all other running lights.

Stock alt was still charging the system, and this was after pulling 404amps out of the battery to just to start. :lol:

Mind you I went in and I've cleaned all the connections, have a new belt with dressing applied per instructions, and I used conductive 30% copper antisieze on the big connections.

The different alt, seems to be only neccesary if you are strappin a big stereo into the little car. I mean it was charging the battery with 3-4 amps while I was watching the amp clamp. 8)

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:03 pm 
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This is another GM alt install I found in another forum, but using the a/c compressor bracket on the front of the engine:
http://www.floridaspl.com/forums/showth ... er&page=19

and found this on ebay, but a little expensive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
Split wrote:
... found this on ebay, but a little expensive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... MEWAX%3AIT

Warning: Of course everyone will notice that item is for 89-94 GT and 95+ Metro.
$309 for new is not bad. if only i made $100k per yr :lol:

I put a washer on the Alt to move it more toward the Right side of the car. Tightened the belt well and it has not squealed since.

I may not need 100A with my 30W stereo but
idling at a stoplight it makes 50+ Amps to run headlights(10A), brake lights(4A), stereo(15) and wipers(15) + defroster. It ads up!
:alien:

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


Top
 Profile  
 
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