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 Post subject: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
So I recently purchased a chip from Teeth that would re-enable my closed loop. I finally got around to installing it today and I'm having a little bit of an issue atm and it appears he is on vacation for a little bit and is unavailable. So in an effort to not have to remove the ECU again just because he is gone and it is such a PITA to remove the ECU I'm going to post this here.

So I installed the new chip tonight and it sounds really great my idles is really smooth and on target and it seemed like it opened up things a lot the sound is absolutely a nasty snarl when I rev it up. So I finished buttoning it all up and took it for a test drive and that is where things get tricky, the car is super responsive it revs and accelerates really fast the problem is that whenever you aren't laying into the throttle the engine revs constantly. When you are at a complete stop it idles silky smooth but as soon as you are like coasting or just sort of feathering the gas it is really hard to deal with because it starts revving and jerking unless you take it out of gear and just let it coast while it is revving or put your foot back in it then it just jerks the car quite badly.


Any thoughts on how to sort this out?

Just to clarify this is not a complaint about Teeth! He is awesome, I just need a little help with this issue since he is unavailable.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:35 am 
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It sounds like his tune is just way too aggressive.. TO be honest there may be nothing wrong and you will just have to learn how drive it with the way it is tuned.

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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:52 am 
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TheINCRide wrote:
It sounds like his tune is just way too aggressive.. TO be honest there may be nothing wrong and you will just have to learn how drive it with the way it is tuned.


I don't think so for example lets say I was coasting down a hill with the car in 4th gear clutch still engaged and you might touch the gas a little from time to time to maintain your speed.

Well instead of just smoothly going down the car will jerk really hard and then cut and jerk and cut and jerk and cut and the engine revs up and down all by itself. It is basically undrivable while it is doing that.

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89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:29 am 
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Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
Check your coolant, not sure if it's related
There may be an air bubble in the cooling system

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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:22 am 
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I did a little more testing and when you press in the throttle and hold the revs at say 2K then it will drop to 1K and back to 2k and back and forth etc. If I got to 4K same thing 1k, 4k, 1K, 4K, wherever I have it pressed into is where it revs to.

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 pm
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
I went back to the original chip and the car is still having the problem so I don't think it is ECU related anymore. It may just be coincidental that it happened right when I was trying out the new ECU. Anyways, I'm guessing it is something TPS related, but I'll keep digging.

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11659
Location: columbus, ohio
the idle adjustment is a dance among the idle air screw, the tps, and the fast idle controls.

a lot of times it is just like amer said, check the coolant. the twincam, among it's idiosyncrises, is really hard to burp. it keeps air bubbles where it shouldn't and that can cause the idle to surge as you described.

i got tired of that action so i used a blocking plate to replace the idle air control at the rear of the intake manifold.
Image

i no longer have a fast idle but i also no longer have any idle surge. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
t3 ragtop wrote:
the twincam, among it's idiosyncrises, is really hard to burp. it keeps air bubbles where it shouldn't and that can cause the idle to surge as you described.


You wuss! I just yank off the hose when the engine is up to temp, let the air flow out, and stick the hose back on. 8-) And pray I don't get a burn!

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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:02 pm 
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TheINCRide wrote:
t3 ragtop wrote:
the twincam, among it's idiosyncrises, is really hard to burp. it keeps air bubbles where it shouldn't and that can cause the idle to surge as you described.


You wuss! I just yank off the hose when the engine is up to temp, let the air flow out, and stick the hose back on. 8-) And pray I don't get a burn!


What is the best none "just yank off the hose" method for burping the twin cam? :huh:

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:26 pm
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Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
Honestly just driving the car SHOULD get the air out.

With the car upto temp you can try squeezing one of the rad hoses to "pinch off" flow through them, thus putting more flow through the smaller coolant hoses. Sometimes that works, but I usually just pull the hose off with it running, and it burps it out real quick, slip it back on, and re-install the clamp.

I should mention I do this with the rad cap off so there is no pressure in the cooling system.

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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11659
Location: columbus, ohio
TheINCRide wrote:
t3 ragtop wrote:
the twincam, among it's idiosyncrises, is really hard to burp. it keeps air bubbles where it shouldn't and that can cause the idle to surge as you described.


You wuss! I just yank off the hose when the engine is up to temp, let the air flow out, and stick the hose back on. 8-) And pray I don't get a burn!

dude! that would get sticky coolant all over my powder coated naughty bits! =)

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:48 am 
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
t3 ragtop wrote:
the idle adjustment is a dance among the idle air screw, the tps, and the fast idle controls.

a lot of times it is just like amer said, check the coolant. the twincam, among it's idiosyncrises, is really hard to burp. it keeps air bubbles where it shouldn't and that can cause the idle to surge as you described.

i got tired of that action so i used a blocking plate to replace the idle air control at the rear of the intake manifold.
Image

i no longer have a fast idle but i also no longer have any idle surge. :wink:


Is there a disadvantage to removing the idle air control?

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Turns out it just needed the experience hands of a professional. Dropped by my mechanic and he had it running super smooth in no time. It runs really really well, the idle is just a touch rougher than it should be and he said I need a new idle air control valve I believe. I looked it up on rock auto and that isn't the thing he was showing me so I must have gotten it wrong. He was pointing to that little black canister looking thing bolted onto the firewall on the right side of the intake with the hoses and adjustment screw on it. Anyone know what part that is I need to get?


Besides that, I am really pleased, the chip from Teeth works awesome and my idle is lower, and smoother, also it is not running nearly so rich anymore which were my goals for the moment.

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:24 am 
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i take those off and throw them away. :wink:

it's pretty much a part of the a/c system and i don't run a/c.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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 Post subject: Re: Surging throttle.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:33 am 
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
t3 ragtop wrote:
i take those off and throw them away. :wink:

it's pretty much a part of the a/c system and i don't run a/c.



Lol thanks Richard!!! =) Unfortunately that plan of action wouldn't work to good for me. I just fixed my A/C, you know I have to keep the woman happy. Personally I could have done without it, but then I hear a lot of "Get rid of that old piece of junk and get a nice new car..."


Does that mean you have a pile of takeoffs I can have? :P

_________________
89 Suzuki Swift GTI
15" Lancer OZ Racing Rims
Custom Trailing Arms by Dethbrd
Boxed Rear Control Arms
Super Pro Poly Bushings
Genie Header
Nissan Intake Manifold
2 1/4" Exhaust
Turbine Tech Underbody Brace
Honda CRX Front Brake Calipers


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