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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:14 am 
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Location: Wahiawa, HI
Nice flow to the course--seemed to be picking up some time and getting faster near the end.

I'd never thought about it before, but I just read in a magazine that wider tires don't put more rubber on the road due to the physics of gases and pressure. Of course I then had to do some more research and found that this is a gross simplification, but it's true enough that wider tires are generally not faster because they have more rubber on the road--apparently the longer, skinnier contact patch of a wide tire is more effective than the shorter fatter one of a tall tire when all else is equal.

So I'd be interested in how much you gained or lost by going for skinnier tires--seems like the idea of mounting the widest tires you can find is pretty much valid for raw grip, but it might not be as much of a factor as one might think when other issues come into play (like steering effort in this case).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Location: Denver
Teeth wrote:
Nice flow to the course--seemed to be picking up some time and getting faster near the end.

I'd never thought about it before, but I just read in a magazine that wider tires don't put more rubber on the road due to the physics of gases and pressure. Of course I then had to do some more research and found that this is a gross simplification, but it's true enough that wider tires are generally not faster because they have more rubber on the road--apparently the longer, skinnier contact patch of a wide tire is more effective than the shorter fatter one of a tall tire when all else is equal.

So I'd be interested in how much you gained or lost by going for skinnier tires--seems like the idea of mounting the widest tires you can find is pretty much valid for raw grip, but it might not be as much of a factor as one might think when other issues come into play (like steering effort in this case).


The first issue was the amount of force it took to turn the wheel so that made the current 13x10 wheels a non starter. I would not drive the car if I had to drive it with those on there. Next downside is the 10 inch wide wheels add 4 total inches to the car width compared to the 13x8. Van tried some 13x9s as well as the 13x8's this past weekend and I think he stuck with the 13x8's in the front for easy of steering.

Oh here is a side by side comparison of me in a STC 89 civic si and Van in the sprint - the sprint needs to be about a second faster on this length of a course index wise and we think it will get there.

http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=h ... O%27Nymous


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:43 am 
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Location: Easley, South Carolina USA
hotrodray1 wrote:
Have you thought about taking padding off the bottom of carpeting that will shave some weight and reinstall carpet and no one will know.


That may be true but we are going to be honest as we can and not cheat.

Van

[quote]

Not sure what is within your regulations of stripping or swapping interior, and also thinking you said your spare parts car is an ER......going with what hotrodray1 was saying, I believe the ER's came with no carpet padding for lighter weight and better fuel efficiency (or someone has already stolen my padding out :| ), check the ER's carpet and see if it has no padding under it......may be a window for you to lose the padding weight, yet would still be honest OEM set-up with no padding......shoot, if the ER has no padding, swap carpets between the cars if that's within the rules, and you're still playing fair.

Just a thought, might be worth looking into.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:55 am 
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Location: Denver
mbellaire13 wrote:
hotrodray1 wrote:
Have you thought about taking padding off the bottom of carpeting that will shave some weight and reinstall carpet and no one will know.


That may be true but we are going to be honest as we can and not cheat.

Van

Quote:

Not sure what is within your regulations of stripping or swapping interior, and also thinking you said your spare parts car is an ER......going with what hotrodray1 was saying, I believe the ER's came with no carpet padding for lighter weight and better fuel efficiency (or someone has already stolen my padding out :| ), check the ER's carpet and see if it has no padding under it......may be a window for you to lose the padding weight, yet would still be honest OEM set-up with no padding......shoot, if the ER has no padding, swap carpets between the cars if that's within the rules, and you're still playing fair.

Just a thought, might be worth looking into.

Thanks we will compare the carpet, we are allowed to swap parts as evidenced by the headlight swap. I was wondering if we should just use the entire ER body. Once we figure out how to remove the rear turbo seats we will waive them compared to the ER. Hopefully our sprint metro is actually your model. The transmission as the 4.10 final drive so maybe it is not exactly an ER. I need to research again what the final drive for the ER is. Thanks for the insight!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:53 am 
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Location: Easley, South Carolina USA
From the posts I've read so far, and there has been many, the Phil N Ed fellow is extremely knowledgeable of most all the variations of our little rides. Mite be worth a PM to him to see if you can get some certain answers on whether it is worth the body/etc swap or not, and might save you some learning the hard way. My guess is, if he don't know the answer, he can point you to the right member who will.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Location: Arvada, CO
We've swapped most of the lightweight parts from the base model to the turbo already. Plus a lot of the extra weight between the two is the engine and the turbo trim and stuff so I don't see a big advantage of taking all the go fast bits and swapping them to the base model.

I weighed the car in FSP trim this past weekend. This was with half a tank of gas and still had the stock passenger seat as well. And without driver.

Van


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Location: Arvada, CO
16 gauge steel? Too heavy
Carbon Fiber? Too ricer and too expensive.
Aluminum Foil Insulation? Light, blingy, and had some laying around....perfect for the POS.

Although I'm kinda thinking of spray painting it black to set off the gauge face and make it more easily readable.

Also, the gauge is taped on. Fasteners just weigh more!

Yes this is not a show car build. It is a purpose build and that purpose is to go fast (without spending too much!).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Nice!

Once you have the skinnier wheel/tire combo on there, we'll want pics of that too... 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:53 am 
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Location: Arvada, CO
Nothing too crazy lately. Just got the passenger side race seat bolted to the floor. Definitely not sturdy enough for a passenger to ride shotgun on course but good enough for riding around paddock, etc.

Got the swaybar to control arm bushings on. Haven't taken it out for a spin yet to see if I can feel any difference in the turn in. Sure hope so. We still need to get the swaybar and rear control arm bushings in as well.

Carbotech is making us some custom brake bads. Should have them at the end of next week hopefully in time for us to try them out at the autocross next weekend. They are gonna reuse the stock pads I sent them and replace the material with their AX6 compound which is autocross specific (good cold stopping properties and initial bite).

Finally decided to vacuum the floorboards and wipe off the 20+ yrs of crud off the outside haha. Starting to look like a respectable race car now!

Van


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:02 am 
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What are the details on those seats? (weight, source, cost...)

How comfortable are they?

I still plan on dropping some weight by installing a race seat on the driver's side at some point. I was thinking more along the lines of Corbeau Clubman, but I've seen something that looks similar to what you are running for cheaper in the Jegs catalog.

I still want to keep the car as comfy as possible though, so I'd love to hear how those are working for you--I notice there seems to be a different model for the passenger...

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Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
I see that you swapped in the older headlights, is that a direct swap, or was there modification needed?

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3-Tech 226/395 Cam - Weber 32/36DGEV
The car I learned to drive a manual transmission and
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:59 pm 
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Location: Arvada, CO
Teeth wrote:
What are the details on those seats? (weight, source, cost...)

How comfortable are they?

I still plan on dropping some weight by installing a race seat on the driver's side at some point. I was thinking more along the lines of Corbeau Clubman, but I've seen something that looks similar to what you are running for cheaper in the Jegs catalog.

I still want to keep the car as comfy as possible though, so I'd love to hear how those are working for you--I notice there seems to be a different model for the passenger...


Seth, the seats are just ones bought off craigslist. They both are Kirkey knockoffs. Both are around 12-13 lbs or so. NOT comfortable for daily driving but this isn't a daily driver. The passenger seat is for super skinny folks. I would hate to even do a minute long autocross run in it. But it does keep you planted! I'd say that seats are one thing that is very driver specific. You'll have to sit in several to find the one you like. But yeah, craigslist is your friend! There are race seats that recline so you kinda get the best of both worlds but those aren't usually as light and are usually a bit more pricey.

Van


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:01 am 
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gtmattz wrote:
I see that you swapped in the older headlights, is that a direct swap, or was there modification needed?


They swapped right in basically. The connectors however do not match between the two. Funny you bring this up as we plan on wiring in the old connectors to mate up with the headlights this week. We never bothered before but I may have to drive the car in the dark this weekend after an event so kinda need headlights. :)

Van


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:30 am 
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Location: Winnemucca, NV
Vanimaniac wrote:
gtmattz wrote:
I see that you swapped in the older headlights, is that a direct swap, or was there modification needed?


They swapped right in basically. The connectors however do not match between the two. Funny you bring this up as we plan on wiring in the old connectors to mate up with the headlights this week. We never bothered before but I may have to drive the car in the dark this weekend after an event so kinda need headlights. :)

Van


Thanks for the info! This is relevant to my needs, as my 87's headlights got all smashed up and I have been having a hard time finding replacements.

Good work on the car btw, it is pretty awesome to see how well the little bugger performs in a racing situation, there is definitely more to these cars than hauling groceries home and sipping gas!

_________________
87 Chevy Sprint 1.0L Carbureted.
3-Tech 226/395 Cam - Weber 32/36DGEV
The car I learned to drive a manual transmission and
took my driving test in. Was left as dead in the desert
for 10 years. Resurrected and modified to be my daily
driver and fun little toy. Ugly everywhere but under the hood!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Thanks for the tips on getting some lightweight seating. I hadn't thought about hitting up Craig's List--found some potentially useful stuff, still looking. I still want the passenger seat to recline and it's hard to beat stock for weight if you want a reclining seat that doesn't cost, so I plan to leave that alone for now.

I think I need something a bit more comfy on the driver's side, but it need not recline if it is comfortable enough an saves some significant wieght. I got to sit in a Corbeau Clubman and really liked it--light and minimalist, supportive yet comfortable. I have my eye on one of those if I can find it for the right price.

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No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:58 am 
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Since there is NO aftermarket whatsoever for the brakes on this car we had Carbotech make us some custom brake pads. I sent them some OEM ones and they replaced the brake pad material with their AX6 compound which is the autocross compound. Good cold bite. Just got them on and bed them in.... AMAZING! Before, the car would just slow down with the brake pedal mashed to the floor which meant extra time to get down to the speed I wanted on course. Now I should be getting that extra time wasted back! Woohoo! They actually can lock up now!

Van


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:25 pm 
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FYI, if anyone wants to upgrade their pads to something that can actually stop the car then contact Mike Jr. at Carbotech. Send them your stock pads and they'll hook you up with whatever compound you want.... http://ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp We used the AX6 which is the autocross specific compound. Tell them you have the CT296 brake pad. Ours was the first time they ever worked on one and they did a great job.

I will admit I should probably wait 'til tomorrow when I autocross on them before praising or not but I am so happy with them from the few minutes use so far.

Van


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Epic news and thanks for the tip! Waiting for your performance report.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Just got done racing. Good news: they make the car stop! Bad news: today it rained during my heat and of course I wish I had the stock pads because they locked up so easily but that's to be expected when you hit the brakes on cold, wet asphalt. :)

Will get video later.

Van


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Video from yesterday's autocross. It rained all morning and I was first car out. This video is of my 4th and final run when it finally started drying. Another half hour and the course was completely dry. Unfortunately I was already done for the day. I still managed to PAX 13th out of 141 drivers so I'm happy with that.

I kinda like this view because you can still see the course but you can also see my handwork and where I'm looking as I'm going through each feature....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E796mmZqew

Van


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Nice.

I am sorry I won't be able to run with you guys at nationals this year, but our results are encouraging.

Keep posting and I'll keep watching the footage.

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Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Vanimaniac wrote:
Just got done racing. Good news: they make the car stop! Bad news: today it rained during my heat and of course I wish I had the stock pads because they locked up so easily but that's to be expected when you hit the brakes on cold, wet asphalt. :)

Will get video later.

Van



Good to hear. I agree aftermarket pads for the car suck a nut. I may give these folks a call and get some pads made up that stop the damn car. I thought it was something wrong with my breaks that they didn't lock up. Now it's confirmed the pads just blow.

Keep up the good work on the car it's turning out to be pretty awesome.

BTW: What has been the total cost so far on your build?

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1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Hmm, total cost? Not sure. Kinch does all the big spending haha. But I'm going to guess so far we're still under $5k? Including the parts car. :) We have a lot of friends with spare stuff lying around that we've used for this car. Seats off craigslist, free steering wheel, take off race rubber, springs from previous projects, etc. That all has helped keep the costs down.

Van


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Car sure could use some snazzy graphics. Dirty white isn't very flattering. I still need to work on getting that gunk off the sides from where the turbo-specific trim used to be.

Van


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Alternator belt broke on me and I didn't realize it. Guess that's why the battery light came on! A 2lb race battery doesn't last long without an alternator so car died on me on the highway today but luckily I coasted off at the next exit. We got the car back on the road because I carry a giant box of spare parts in the hatch haha. Got a new belt on and jumped the battery and made it home before a giant rainstorm. Then we corrected my mistakenly installed MBC and now the car is running awesome with some more powah! Got an autocross tomorrow and test n tune afterwards. Will post pics and vids eventually. We got an A/F gauge but haven't had time to get that installed just yet.

Van


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