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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Hello everyone. I've been a fan of this site for some time now and have gotten great tips here for my 88 chevy sprint.

I could use some help trying to figure out my latest issue with my sprint.

I had been having problems with sputtering going up hills when giving the engine more gas. A few people here were pointing to the EGR valve as a source of that problem, among other things like vacuum lines, fuel filter, timing etc.

I had put a new fuel filter, distributor cap, new spark plugs, spark plug cables and rotor inside distributor cap. I had also used a timing light to get the timing just right. The engine would start fine and idle real nice but still sputtering when I increased gas up hills. I decided to go ahead and clean out the EGR valve. Sure enough it was totally clogged with carbon. After thoroughly cleaning it out and making sure the diaphragm move freely up and down I re-installed it. I took it for a test drive and it still was sputtering very badly. I barely got it home. Now when I start the engine it starts quickly but then quickly dies. It dies in idle or even if I hold down the gas. I have to keep pumping it to keep it going but eventually still dies.

At this time I have pulled all my vacuum lines and checked for clearance, cracks and blockage and replaced the ones that needed it. I have also done a test on the fuel pump and it flows strongly, (just put a new one in last year). I'm in the process of checking my fuel lines, the rubber sections and replacing what needs replacing.

Other than that I'm at a loss of what to do. I would like to check the timing again but I can even keep it idling at this point.

Any idea what could be happening here?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Where in the United States are you located?

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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:06 pm 
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East Tenn.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:08 pm 
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You may be having an issue with the new Tenn gasolines affecting your carburetor solenoids.
(The gas produced now may not be the same as what was being blended in '88.)
1.) Check for codes and post what your ECM is saying.
2.) What are the ohm readings for your 3 solenoids?

Welcome to Teamswift; your problem doesn't sound like an impossible one to solve.

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DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:42 am 
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Thanks Phil, That's something I will check out. I'll start with a search here.

One important detail I left out of my initial post was that I also had a new rebuilt carb installed last year. After some adjustments the sprint ran really good. After having the carb installed the mechanic that installed suggested we switch to pure gasoline, no ethinol additives, and have used that ever since. Also a week prior to this a fan belt broke and caused the sprint to overheat but it never got into the red. It was smoking really bad when it got hot though. Don't know if this would have anything to do with the current problem but thought I should list everything.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:10 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
The tried and true method of doing a compression test at the outset would apply here.
When an engine is overheated, the rings lose their temper and compression goes down.
Oil can escape around those rings and in the compression chamber they burn and go out the exhaust as smoke.

Work logically, but deliberately.
Simply changing parts until the symptoms go away is not what the members here suggest.

Once you have done a compression test, be sure to post your results.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Finally got a compression gauge and did a compression test over the weekend.

Cylinder 1= 192
Cylinder 2= 201
Cylinder 3= 195

The instructions say to heat the motor up to normal operating temp but since I can't keep the motor idling, it dies 3 to 4 seconds after starting, I had to do it cold.
Is that still reliable?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Yes
You are working on what we would consider a basically new engine here at Teamswift.
There should be no reason to touch anything in the head or block.
Concentrate on Chapter 6E of your manual.
If you want some shortcuts, here we go:

Post your ohm readings for the three solenoids.

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:59 am 
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Phil's 100% on the money as usual. Also Post a pic of engine..

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:53 pm 
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.
Looks like your in good hand with these boys both men work these habatchi 308 carb's over like a kid in a candy store
.
.
glacierburst wrote:
Phil's 100% on the money as usual. Also Post a pic of engine..

.
If could just add.....
A picture of your engine would be nice.... but a picture of your GF would be a thing of beauty it wood
.
.

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t3 ragtop wrote:
the 3 banger isn't at all a "grenade." it's a tough little son of a bitch doing a big job. respect it.
suprf1y wrote:
I didn't save anything.Vehicles are to me, like little boys are to Tommy.Toys to be abused for my own personal pleasure.
jrjd wrote:
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Phil, thank you for the reply.

My apologies for taking so long to get back to this. Renovations to the house, overtime at work and other details of daily life keep us from getting to things that need our attention.

I'm not giving up on this sprint until I'm absolutely certain I know what's wrong with it.

I have just ordered a multi voltage meter that will probably get here by next weekend.

I have a couple of questions though. You mention chapter 6E in your post above. In my manual there is a chapter 6 but I see no 6E. Chapter 6 in my manual covers the emission control part of the engine. Is that the chapter you are referring to here?

Also, I'm fairly ignorant of how engines and carburetors work on a deeper level, (that's why I'm here). When you say "Post your ohm readings for the three solenoids" would that be solenoids on the carb or another part of the engine?

I hope these questions aren't too annoying. I have to admit I don't even know what a solenoid is and have never measured Ohms before. I do intend to teach myself and find out.

When I post the Ohm readings I will also post some pics of the sprint and engine.

Thanks again Phil


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:03 am 
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Ted52 wrote:
I hope these questions aren't too annoying. I have to admit I don't even know what a solenoid is and have never measured Ohms before. I do intend to teach myself and find out.

When I post the Ohm readings I will also post some pics of the sprint and engine.

Thanks again Phil


Thanks for that.
We like to know what car we are giving advice.
Sometimes a year, make and model doesn't apply because there may be an engine swap.
You take your time getting the tools, doing the remodel and show us what you've got so we can go from there.

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:48 pm 
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I finally got some photos of my 88 chevy sprint and just got my voltmeter to measure the solenoids Phil referred to. I still don't know exactly where the solenoids are that you refer to Phil. I'm just guessing they might be on the carburetor? The manual makes references to solenoids on several things in the motor in general. I know this sounds dense and I apologize for that but could you guide me to the ones you are referring to are exactly? The manual refers to 3 solenoids on the carb but they have no electrical contacts that can be tested. There is something like a electrical harness on the carb, (see photo), but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

Attachment:
carb 1.jpg
carb 1.jpg [ 57.17 KIB | Viewed 5410 times ]


Here are a couple of photos of the Sprint. It was originally purchased by my Mother in Law who later gave it to my wife so we know the history of the Sprint. It has run great until last year when it started stalling real bad. I did the points, plugs and fuel filter but that didn't help. A mechanic co worker of mine said we needed a new carb so we bought a rebuilt carb and had him install it. He's a good mechanic and works on a lot of people's cars but I don't think he really new the Sprint that well. He never got it adjusted right. After I worked on the adjustments for a while it started running well again for about a year until a few weeks ago. Here are some photos to refer to.

Attachment:
sprint.JPG
sprint.JPG [ 324.67 KIB | Viewed 5410 times ]

image_id: 23456

I'm still figuring out how to put photos in posts here.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:49 pm 
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That's a good looking little sprint.

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:33 pm 
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glacierburst wrote:
That's a good looking little sprint.

:goodpost:
Your yellow arrow is pointing to a 4 pin connector.
Behind that is a 6 pin connector.
Disconnect it and probe the two top on the carb side.
Then probe the next two, and finally the last two as you work your way down.
What are the ohm readings?

We ask so that you can test a common electrical problem.
Common in the sense that it works fine for years and then goes bad.

After you post those ohm values, we'll ask for 'codes'.

This is a really simple car to fix if you follow a logical plan.

Like you, we're zeroing in on the carb initially.

BTW, they don't have 'points' in the traditional sense.
Do you mean you replaced the ignitor?

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:45 am 
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Here are the ohm resistance numbers Phil. These may be a bit large, still learning the file size vs resolution here.
The top photo are the male connectors, top to bottom. The bottom photo are the female connectors top to bottom.
I thought I would do both to make sure I covered all contacts.

Is it normal to have such different readings for the male and female connections?

Image

Image

I did notice, you can see it on the male bottom connection, what looks like oil. Is that a symptom of something?

Also, retracing everything I did prior to all this. It all seemed to go bad after I cleaned the EGR regulator.
A little more history: After having the rebuilt carb installed, I noticed after a time that the EGR regulator cap had gone missing. I improvised a cap for it and it seemed to run a lot more smoothly for about year prior to all this.

Oh, points, just a term I grew up with. What I meant to say was a new distributor cap and rotary arm.

About codes. My understanding of it, looking at the manual, is based on the check engine light coming on while the engine is running. During all these engine problems the check engine light never came on.

Thanks for your time and patience Phil.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:27 am 
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Image
These are the values I was asking about.
Your 40.7 ohm reading is quite good for an MCS.

There is another fellow on the forum right now with an '86, so please be patient with me.
I don't want to give you information for HIS car, as the test sequence is different.
BTW, in the future, you can test your 'male' (or 'firewall') side of the connector, but only use the volt setting.
(I think of the 'male' side as the one which goes from that connector to the carb as the wires inside come to a point.)
The 'ohm' setting sends voltage into the ECM and can cause problems, but you are probably OK so don't sweat it.

The oil you've seen shouldn't create a problem.

Your 19.4 value for the Bowl Vent Solenoid is a little low.
Plug the connectors back into their proper places.
Hopefully, all is OK with your carb solenoids, but here's a check not in your books:
Turn the key to 'on' and wait for 3 minutes and see if the bowl vent solenoid is warm to your finger's touch.
If it is warm or hot, you might consider swapping in a new one.

Next, you'll want to check for codes.
Plug it all back together and flip the switch on the right side of the steering wheel UNDER the dash and then watch your check engine light.
Count the pulses and pauses.

See what sort of pattern develops and write it down on a piece of paper.
It may take a few cycles to make sure you have it all.
Then post it in this thread.
*This advice will NOT work for those with '85 and '86 vehicles.

Almost forgot: after flipping the switch, turn the key to 'ON' but don't start the car.
You should see the flash of the check engine light.

If you have a Factory Service Manual, we are following the flow chart on Page 6E12-22 AKA Fig 6E12-25 "Diagnosis Flow Chart".
Since the check engine light hasn't come on during all your problems, we should assume all sensors are hooked up.
However, it doesn't hurt to double check.

The '87 & '88 are easier to diagnose than the '85 and '86 because the ECM will tell you which sensors are not working properly in the later two years.

Other issues which may produce symptoms like you've got include:
-oxygen sensor
-defective MCS
-ignitor
not necessarily in any order.

It can be very frustrating, not knowing why your engine dies quickly after initially firing.
Working logically, knowing it is either a problem with gas or spark, you can nail it down in nothing flat.

Let's look at 'gas'.
If it runs and dies quickly, but will continue to run if you shoot ether into the intake at short bursts, you can eliminate 'spark' and concentrate on 'gas' or 'fuel' issues.
This technique is very inexpensive and saves a lot of time.
You only need to do it once to eliminate spark if the engine will run with those short bursts.
Of course, it helps to have an assistant.

Now, let's look at 'spark'.
If you put an inline spark tester
Image
and observe the tester during the run/fail situation you can also determine if it is a spark or gas problem.
(If the spark continues while the engine fails, you can pretty much eliminate 'spark' as the issue.)
Likewise, if the engine fails at the same time the tester shows no spark, you've pretty much nailed the problem to the ignitor.
In line spark testers are around $5. Even so, they should be considered a valuable asset to your tool arsenal.
A simple tool with very helpful information on almost any internal combustion engine at a cheap price?
Priceless!

In your case, the EGR valve was clogged, but there are still passages which lead to and from that valve inside the intake manifold and head.
These may be clogged but probably not lead to the symptoms you describe.
Anyways, you've got a few more leads from us.
Hope this helps.

Excellent posts and pictures, BTW.
Hope we can help you fix it!

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:24 am 
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Thanks a bunch Phil. Now I've got something to focus on and keep hope alive. I'll post back what I glean from these checks, and by the way I'm learning a lot here.

I would much rather own a car that I know inside out and can work on myself. The cars they make these days are so much harder to work on yourself with all the computer chips etc.

We love this little Sprint that has been so reliable for so many years. She's well worth the effort to keep alive.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Hi Phil.

Reporting back a couple of things that I've checked. I plugged the solenoid connections back then checked for any heat after turning the key on for about 4 minutes. I felt no heat, cool to the touch. Checked the codes for check engine light, 1 flash, pause, 2flashes. My manual shows that sequence as "normal".

I thought I would try starting the motor up just keep things loose and flowing some gas through the carb since it did idle a few seconds before it died. I pumped the throttle a couple of times and got it started, funny thing is, it didn't die. The engine just started idling real steady and smooth, it's running now. I thought well, might as well take it for a test drive and see what happens. The engine was running strong with just some very slight missing going up hills, hardly noticeable. The only thing I've done since the last time I tried starting it was disconnect the electrical solenoid connections to the carb, check the resistance then reconnected them.

Could this be the source of the problem?, loose or corroded connections? The connection harness has a type of snap that secures those connections from coming loose. I had to un-snap them to disconnect them then put the snaps back into position when connecting them back.

I would still like to know what happened and if this was the culprit.

Any ideas, thoughts?

Confused.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:12 am 
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Not Imperial, but US gallons, I got 46.9 miles per gallon last tank in our 4 door 5 speed MK1, probably because I haven't been using the A/C.
Run it and see what kind of mileage it gets from here on out.
If you see a precipitous drop in mileage, you need to do some maintenance.
At least that's my experience.

I spend the few extra bucks twice a year and put in the Mobil One full synthetic 5W-30 as these Teamswift hot shots kept recommending.
Once I started doing that, I noticed my maintenance dropped a helluva lot.
Man, I sure resisted for years, though.

So I'd consider a few things:
-an air bubble or speck of dirt messed with one of your carb jets and has passed like a painful kidney stone?
-your MCS is OK for now, but is going out on an intermittent basis?
-your Weather Pak fittings are not making good connections as you've mentioned?
-you got ahold of some bad gas and it has finally worked its way through the system or been diluted?

Newer cars have a few more whistles and bells to store the information if a sensor was going intermittently.
You are at the end of a long line of carburetor equipped passenger cars.
(In '89, most everything went to fuel injection of one sort or another.)

Feel free to update your thread with some videos or pictures.
We realize the car is more than just the engine, so throw it all on here from time to time.

There's one guy who updates his thread like that.
He was having problems burning valves.
Then he did the bottom end and I think he used 'Hastings'? piston rings.
Since putting in the new rings, he hasn't burned a valve.
Kinda nice to learn from these other fellows that way, rather than wasting your own money doing head after head and blaming the manufacturer.
I think his car is over 200,000 miles now with no new problems, other than rust and a new gas tank.
Check it out.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:01 am 
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Is this car still for sale?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:58 am 
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SWEET PICKLE'S....

Why is this thread not a sticky..?.... SOMBISH....
Thats just wrong back in my day this bish would have been a sticky and 100 Krama point added just cause info of this calibar...or calibuar doesn't just happen by magic...or does it.?

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t3 ragtop wrote:
the 3 banger isn't at all a "grenade." it's a tough little son of a bitch doing a big job. respect it.
suprf1y wrote:
I didn't save anything.Vehicles are to me, like little boys are to Tommy.Toys to be abused for my own personal pleasure.
jrjd wrote:
"Driving a Swift GTi is like driving a bike in your house".


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:54 pm 
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I hope this connects to previous post (from 2013), I have the same exact problem!! After a few years off the road, the car seemed to run well, just at a high idle. Then it started developing the miss, with eventual stall. Starts right back up, and seems to reset?? Same year, except when I plugged the carb solenoid plug back together, it did not solve my stalling problem. What I ASSUME is my bowl solenoid does get SLIGHTLY warm with the ignition on, previous poet said that MIGHT need replaced. If you agree, I might need ideas where to get one, local part stores got nothing. (It's not in their computer???) I also had to run a new trigger wire to the starter, and now the headlights are intermittent. The hazard switch has a short also, I'm thinking unrelated. HELP! :)


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