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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am
Posts: 148
Location: Pennsylvania
Car is bone stock.

136 cold cranking compression in all cylinders

165/70r13 tires

Don't see how these road tests are getting low 16's @ 87 mph... quarter mile "horsepower calculation" comes in at 96 HP w/150# driver.

Is mine where it should be or do I have issues?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:13 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Canada
You have 250lbs in title and 150lbs in the thread, which road tests are you referring to?
I don't know what compression is for an 87 turbo, 140 seems low to me. Your engine and or turbo could be tired, what is your mileage?
Are the tires old? Usually take some pressure out of them too.

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89 Swift gti
Modified B16 P29 75mm pistons,13:1CR, cultus intake, genie header, genie exhaust, 3tech head, 3tech 222/365 cams, 3tech UD pulley, megasquirt 2.0, 60mm throttle body, Aluminum flywheel


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania
beached wrote:
You have 250lbs in title and 150lbs in the thread, which road tests are you referring to?
I don't know what compression is for an 87 turbo, 140 seems low to me. Your engine and or turbo could be tired, what is your mileage?
Are the tires old? Usually take some pressure out of them too.


I'm the 250#, but I did the Horsepower Calculation with a 150# driver in an attempt to get the 87 mph quarter mile times I found doing internet search or "1987 Turbo Sprint Quarter Mile"

I have the FSM and couldn't find the turbo cranking compression - in fact, I seem to have found the 200psi for the stock engine which just can't be right. So I don't know. My turner friends think the 136 is not unreasonable. And don't forget, this is COLD which is NOT how you do it. I'd bet hot is 150-ish.

122k miles are on engine. It does not use oil and was an adult woman's car where most of its miles were done in CA and then a lesser amount in Arkansas.

Yes, tires are old, but that effects ET which I'm not concerned about. At 20 psi I was getting a 1Hz frequency big wheel hop, at 30 psi no wheel hop, so I just stuck with the 30 psi. But again, I'm just using the mph to assess the condition of the engine.

A change from a 150# to 250# driver is worth about 4 mph in the classic HP calculation from weight and mph.

EDIT __________________

Here are links for
17.3 @ 76 mph http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php
16.2 @ 87 mph http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/curbside-classic-1987-chevrolet-turbo-sprint/

I could see mine doing 17.3 with good tires on concrete since I have the mph. But the 87 is just too fast - it's possible this result was from a tweaked one or someone trying to sell theirs.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:46 pm
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Location: Arizona
Even bone stock its slow . We have 15.7 slips from Firebird raceway with severe traction problems in 1st and 2nd on mildly tuned '88 T3s . 10# of boost , 2 1/4 exhaust , 185/60/13 tires , one driver 200# other one 170#


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:46 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I don't think you are that far off, although my 87/88's seemed a bit quicker than the later models(here in Canada's 89-91's). I don't think 140psi is way to low for that engine cold. When I played briefly at the drag strip with these, 17 sec quarters were normal in stock form.
It can be hard to get accurate expectations because numbers become skewed over time, for example everyone thought the 5.0L gt mustangs were so incredibly fast in the old days, when really lots of them only ran 16 sec quarters in stock form. Put into perspective, your car is likely 17sec capable which really isn't as far behind a stock 5.0 of the same vintage as you'd expect.. Just my thoughts.
Now on the upside, a huge benefit of the light weight is that any mod that works (like exhaust, boost increase etc), will def drop your et. 10hp makes a difference at this weight level, where on a 3-4000lb vehicle it's pretty negligible. Play and have fun with it, don't sweat your specific numbers would be my Recomendation!

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am
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Location: Pennsylvania
I'm guessing I'm about where it should be with a bone stock engine.

I've started reading all past posts about raising boost and all the issues - my plan is to raise boost to 9-10 or where I reach the limit of stock engine. However, there is no protection against low fuel pressure, clogged filter, etc. resulting in a lean condition which is Kiss of Death for turbo engines - so I'm going to have to get a Wide Band.

I also need to find a rough list of what you have to upgrade for each incremental increase in boost - like what is the 1st upgrade most engines need? I know there is fuel pump, VAF, Temp sensor, injectors but in what order. I'm guessing VAF which is the "flow limit" people all talk about is the first order of business, but if I don't hit that just over 10 psi, I'll settle for whatever boost takes me to that limit.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:31 am 
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I've run as high as 25 psi boost on these motors with no mods other than more fuel, which I achieved with the coolant temp sensor mod coupled with the cold start injector coming on at about 10 psi. With decent rubber (these cars hook real good compared to the later models) I ran low 15's. With a mild cam, and max boost, 15-18 psi, it ran 14.7 in the quarter.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania
suprf1l

Wow, that is pretty fast.

Did you simply forget about tweaking the VAF and simply cold start inject with some static temp sensor offset and not sweat overly-rich conditions?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:04 am 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Overly rich is your friend on a turbo. Granted you don't make as much power rich, but it's a lot safer. One mk1 I had that I never took to the track but felt really fast really only had big exhaust and manual boost control turned up to about the highest the over boost valve in the intercooler would allow. No idea what it's time slip would have shown but it was an honest fast car for what it was. It would hang with nearly anything for quite awhile, traction was an issue of course. Those were the days that everyone thought a Chevy short box truck with 5.7 (350) was the fastest thing around. The little red sprint turbo put them in their place many times. Such a fun little car!

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am
Posts: 148
Location: Pennsylvania
I had a 91 5/3 5-door and drove it for 3 years with a shot engine.

I loved that car - I was going to rebuild it and keep it forever.

...until I found this turbo for sale locally.

I really love driving mine around and get a kick of how quick it is for 1 liter - I put a Classic plate on it but still drive it at least very other day.

I was wondering if the cat could be plugging up and yes, what about hogging it out of the manifold? Would it throw codes?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
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Location: Alberta, Canada
I don't normally find much of a gain or recommend gutting cats, but it seems like gutting the pre cat in these may help, other members chime in and offer some opinions. You will certainly not throw codes for removing the cats on these models, they aren't monitored by the computer system.
The 5dr cars like yours are actually my face with a 5spd. They are still small and super efficient but the extra doors add practicality, just makes them handy for tossing groceries in, and four passengers isn't terrible when needed in them.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1395
Location: Alberta, Canada
I'd replace the oxygen sensor, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, PVC valve, air filter, consider timing belt and waterpump, and the cam and crank seals(when doing crank seal you will also be removing and reinstalling the crankshaft pulley bolt that sometimes causes grief by coming loose). This all sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't on one of these, and it covers most common wear items in one shot for a pretty modest investment.
Apart from that, I'd consider a 3tech cam, there just doesn't seem to be a downside to them in these cars. Everytime I've put one in, it felt like the car gained power everywhere. If anything the low end power stays the same, but you don't have to worry that after the cam it won't work unless it's screaming all the time, it'll just make more power whenever you want it!

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am
Posts: 148
Location: Pennsylvania
My 5-door replaced a Windstar cargo van (!) I do a lot of home repairs, roofing, etc. but was surprised for the time I had the 5-door, I NEVER needed the Windstar. However, I did need a pickup truck. So a 1974 Datsun 620 is my second - well actually my primary vehicle since the Turbo is a Classic.

Good to hear about the cat. I've seen cats start to plug up in other cars, wonder what the tenancy is in these.

Recapping: my inquiry about the strip times was to determine if there was anything obviously wrong. My opinion based on no real world T3 experience is everything is pretty much OK. And my goal is to put another 100k on it - so I don't want to compromise engine life except for 2-3 more pounds of boost. Trying to get parts in SW PA for Sprints is ....well, impossible pretty much and I shudder to think what happens when I need a fuel injection part.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am
Posts: 148
Location: Pennsylvania
At what level do you have to upgrade the stock fuel pump? Some people mention 100 HP-ish.


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