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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:55 am 
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Ive seen a few vids on youtube lately of people running hydrogen boosters on there cars for increased gas mileage

check out water4fuel.com

has anyone looked into doing this conversion?

i think you need to run a more powerful alternator to power the booster but other than that it doesnt look too difficult.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:22 am 
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There's no free lunch.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:36 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
There's no free lunch.

+1

Onboard hydrogen generation just doesn't do it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:53 pm 
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anyone actually tried one on a swift who can give a solid opinion?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:21 pm 
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stevieh6 wrote:
anyone actually tried one on a swift who can give a solid opinion?

It has nothing to do with a swift. Its been done on many cars. The costs far outweigh the negligible gains in mileage even if you can generate enough hydrogen to make a difference.

For there to be any kind of gain the process of converting water to hydrogen would need to be greater than 100% efficient. This is just not possible.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:09 pm 
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well im gonna try it and see for myself, i'll let you know how i get on, although i might not do it until spring now cause i dont want the water freezing

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:07 am 
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Numerous testing facilities say it's a scam. I would agree with them. Even Mythbusters tried it with no noticable improvement. The only improvement is in weight savings because your wallet is lighter.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:29 am 
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Anyone who knows at least some chemistry knows that you need an enormous amount of energy to split hydrogen from oxygen. It's the most obvious scam ever, can't believe people actually fall for it. :lol: The only efficient way of doing it is on an industrial scale, let's just say you need a whole power plant and it's still very costly :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:32 am 
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These guys are trying to run a car by water..

They use the energy locked in between hydrogen and oxygen in water, HHO.

They mix HHO(brown's gas) in the manifold with the gasoline mist and hence, as they claim it, makes your car more fuel efficient.

just my 5 cents.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:44 am 
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If you put it that way, simple water injection can do that. Those so called onboard hydrogen generators don't generate nearly enough hydrogen to make a difference.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:25 pm 
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agreed, i've gone from 55mpg to 57mpg, so not a good enough improvement to recommend it. A more powerfull alternator could possibly improve these results but im not will (at present) to shell out for one. Ive seen better results on diesel engines as they run more amps.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:48 pm 
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i've seen one guy do it in my life and "they" murdered him. i knew the guy with the goods personally and had several opportunities to ride in the modified vw dune buggy that was his test mule. after "they" poisoned him at a meeting at a local restaraunt, "they" robbed his home lab/ office of all his work, prototypes, records, etc. by the time his widow returned home, the foul deed was done and his research never saw the light of day.

he was a really honest man who wanted mankind to benefit from his breakthrough and he spent as much personal energy trying to ensure that the "money men" didn't screw us out of his work as he did on the actual achievement - so "they" killed him. then "they" suppressed the investigation and the story.

google it, there are youtube videos on it.

you don't break the water molecule with brute force current (which usually only results in boiling the water in your "cell.") the secret is in the frequency of the pulsed current applied. what's the resonant frequency of a water molecule?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:30 am 
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Right I am now looking at getting a Pulse Wave Modulator. What frequency do you need to get the best results?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:30 am 
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stevieh6 wrote:
Right I am now looking at getting a Pulse Wave Modulator. What frequency do you need to get the best results?

Pulse Wave Modulator...
What is a "Pulse Wave Modulator"? Never heard of it.

Resonant frequency of water?
Doesn't exit. Depends completely upon temperature, mass, and so on...
(I see one or two answers coming forth...both of which are completely false)

"Getting a more powerful alternator"?
And how do you drive this "more powerful alternator"?
Simple...by siphoning even more power from the crankshaft.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:01 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
i've seen one guy do it in my life and "they" murdered him. i knew the guy with the goods personally and had several opportunities to ride in the modified vw dune buggy that was his test mule. after "they" poisoned him at a meeting at a local restaraunt, "they" robbed his home lab/ office of all his work, prototypes, records, etc. by the time his widow returned home, the foul deed was done and his research never saw the light of day.

he was a really honest man who wanted mankind to benefit from his breakthrough and he spent as much personal energy trying to ensure that the "money men" didn't screw us out of his work as he did on the actual achievement - so "they" killed him. then "they" suppressed the investigation and the story.

google it, there are youtube videos on it.

you don't break the water molecule with brute force current (which usually only results in boiling the water in your "cell.") the secret is in the frequency of the pulsed current applied. what's the resonant frequency of a water molecule?

540 hz ?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:23 pm 
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I think 540hz is the average frequency of the groan a person gives out after finally figuring out, even after being told time after time that it's a waste of time, that trying to "enrich" a petroleum fueled engine with some sort of "hydrogen" additive, gas/liquid/methane/whatever, whatever it may be, is a losing deal at best.
I have no doubt that these systems actually work, i.e. increase fuel mileage. But, while mileage per gallon/pound of fuel used may be increased, the overall cost goes up as well, and a person ends up losing $$$ as the end result.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:09 am 
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Personnally im not convinced these work, but if they do then its only a one time initial payout then a lifetime of better milege.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:20 pm 
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i think that the current bunch of hoo proponents have bought the snake oil big time. none of them have it right.

the guy and car i'm talking about generated hydrogen, not brown's gas, which completely powered the vw 1600 bug engine alone and on demand from well water drawn from the inventor's water hose. the real deal.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html

i worked with this cat at battelle memorial labs, the world's largest contract research and development group. i even drove the car while he made adjustments to the rack of electronics he had mounted on the back of the dune buggy. he'd put the water into the tank from his garden hose right in front of you, turn the gizmos on, and start the engine. when he was done with a demonstration he'd turn the power off to the electronics instead of the ignition key and the engine would stall from lack of fuel. there should still be an archived copy of a local news report where he did an edited demonstration of the water powered dune buggy. once you plug his name into youtube you'll probably run across the channel 6 news reports.

he wanted to give his invention to the world as a gift from god. other people had a different idea about that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:20 pm 
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yh ive read a bit about him, real shame we live in a world run by blood thirsty greedy cunts.

So do you think that adding a frequency would help my project? and what frequency?

The PWM im looking at adds the frequency on top of the DC current, peeking at around 14v and dipping to 12v.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 pm 
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it's a bubble buster, but i'd say that your money would be better spent on a 3 tech performance cam. that has been proven to be a worthwhile modification. the hydrogen cell stuff being peddled right now is snake oil.

i have a friend who is a chemist across the hall from my office and he has taken a good look at the current equipment and processes being used and you may as well just use resistance heating to boil water and draft that into your engine's intake. there's nobody in the current market who has a product that's on the right track, nor will there ever be. the corporatocracy won't allow it.

unless you have a closet full of lab equipment incuding high voltage, high frequency gear, a good working knowledge of chemistry, electronics, and physics, and the luck of the irish, you're not going to build a hydrogen fuel cell in your garage. and as far as i know, nasa removed the fuel cells from the retired space shuttles so that the technology didn't escape their control.

sorry my friend, it ain't gonna' happen in your lifetime but if you won't be dissuaded from spending your available cash on bullshit made in somebody else's garage, knock yourself out. :-P

i have a lifetime of experience in high speed data acquisition, high speed xray photography, electronic instrumentation, microwave propagation, wave guide design, and every transducer known to science. i had access to high tech engineering white papers, engineering dissertations, and data ranging from experiments on petrochemical enginnering up to cold fusion for 30 years. even if i did have the secrets to cracking water molecules into a low cost, sustainable source of energy i wouldn't tell you or anyone else so that "they" wouldn't murder me over "the goose that laid the golden egg." 8)

if the internet had existed when stan meyers was around, he may have successfully changed things with a wikileaks type of release of the technology. it's sad that what would have been such a beneficial, revolutionary development was violently suppressed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:24 pm 
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You see, the old coots on this board can still surprise you a little eh?

I went into this area pretty deep. It was a dark time in my life and I was grasping for anyhting to hold my interest and keepp me from the depths of depression. I looked at all the different options. Stan Meyer had it. He even got to the point where he had packaged up the system into what was effectively a "fuel injector/ spark plug. ie he broke the H2O bond and then pulsed energy at it to make it revert to water and release the energy in doing so... the patents are out there for general viewing.

However, from what I can gather, and from other "source" reading. Stans princple was very basic. and you can try it too on a lab bench with a signal generator, amplifier and a glass of water..... (and a tuned circuit to "aid" the process and reduce the amount of power required to do so ;-) (yeah that was a subtle hint.. you can brute force anything but its the tuned circuit that reduces the power requirements )
And as it is open source information, here it is.
Stan did not make HOO. He stretched the covalent bonds of the H2O molecule until the individual atoms separated from each other. So, he got a gas mixture in exactly the right volume to recombine into water. How did he do it?
Well, it worked on the principle of an increasing, oscilalting waveform that would stretch the bond further and further until it released. That, my firends, is a saw tooth ramp waveform. Any good signal generator can produce an infinately variable set of these. Now you are gonna ask me what frequency and amplitude it needs to be right? That... my friends.... is the hard yards. but.... there is plenty of science out there and definately information buried within keelynet to give you a baseline. I stumbled on a few things of note when I spent some downtime looking into this.

The amplitude does not need to out of this world IF you use a tuned ciruit. the tuned circuit will aid the effectiveness of the ramp waveform and mean that much less power is being consumed.

There was a medical doctor playing with frequency use to sanitize water. one particular frequency had a rather abrupt result. ie the immediate change of the water into H and O2 in a rather hurried fashion apparently resulting in a hole the same diameter as the beaker in the ceiling panels....., . The frequncy for the actual experiment setup was published, but NOT under this science space. (don't ask me to dredge it up please.. its all gone waaay back off one of my early pc's)

The US navy has a patent for self warming deep water dive suits.. these suits have a biscuit layer of .... iron and magnesium (both particles have a specific size...) and when immersed in SEA water, lo and behold... they heat up. The challenge was... they had a bit of an issue with a side product.... yes, you guessed it... Hydrogen and oxygen were given off. the iron and magnesium particle created micro batteries with the sea water. heat was a byproduct.

The patent also gives graphs of the hydroxy "blow off" for specific quantities.... I played the idea over of hydrogen/oxygen generation on demand from wet cells where you use biscuits of FeMg immersed in a tank, fill it up wth sea water, control gas collection by water level. Why not salt infused water? because, in establishing a return to base option for this, where the used biscuits come back to be recycled, the contents in the cell would also carry many very rare elements from the sea water reduction that could quite potentially be extracted and benefit the world... and my pocket....

Now go and chew over this for a while. Since my eldest daughter has just completed a double major in Science and Geology, and is now doing her Honours and Masters in the next two years, after which she has been invited to an overseas University for a fully paid doctorate.... I might let her loose in her lab.... tickle her "exploratory scientific bug"... see if it bites....


And if you guys have any issues with any of these concepts. then just take a magnetron out of a microwave, mount it onto a bolt in tube that screws into the spark plug hole, trigger it to fire at waaay below tdc, use the carb to spray water into the chamber.... I have seen a videoof a motor mower powered by water that works using this...... I bet its on youtube now.....Like I said, you can brute force anything to work....

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:02 pm 
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magnetron, baby! :wink:

my best class c radars used 'em. don't forget the tuned wave guides.

lindsay has given you "secrets." now he has to hide. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:55 pm 
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thanks that good info, so is there a way to create the saw tooth ramp wave form when the input is 12v DC?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:06 am 
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stevieh6 wrote:
thanks that good info, so is there a way to create the saw tooth ramp wave form when the input is 12v DC?

yes.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:08 pm 
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so it is worth getting a PWM then?

I have bought the +10 advance sprocket from 3tech so i'll be putting that on soon aswell.

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