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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 316
Location: KC, Kansas
So driving down the highway I lost all my compression. IE died. I was running with some low compression anyway. Just wanted to see how far I could stretch it till I got the money to fix the problem. Well problem happened. Now I have to fix it.

Going to be getting a newly rebuilt head. (just faster to do it that way. than to rebuild the thing.) That's going to be a cake walk.

My big question is piston gap to the side wall of block. It looks a little large to me. I can see the top ring on like 2 of the pistons. What is an expectable gap?

I'd hate to install new rings and start getting a piston slap down the road. I figure since I'm in there may as well do the best job I can.

Also, What size should the cylinder walls read out to be with a caliper? And what is expectable?

Will I need to go to 75mm pistons?

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
you read the cylinder dimensions with a bore gauge. calipers don't work all that well. you have to take measurements at several positions in the bores. they usually wear oval and tapered.

after you get the measurements you can determine what over bore you will need to square up the cylinders and then you buy pistons and rings. take the pistons and rings to your machine shop and let them do the actual boring to fit the piston assemblies.

a common job will be 20 thousandths over. 40 thousandths is the bore limit and that will take 75mm pistons. you can have the bores re-sleeved and start with fresh standard pistons if the cylinders are really jacked up.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
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Location: KC, Kansas
After closer inspection they aren't as bad as i thought. Not oval at all. I think a simple hone and re install of the pistons with new rings should do it.

For future ref. Where can I get a bore gauge? and how much do they run?

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Oss, the Netherlands
That's what I did 5 years ago. Cylinders looked fine, gave them a hone and put in new rings after cleaning the pistons. It was fine at first, but after 30k km or so it started burning oil. Consumption rose gradually up to the point that I had serious blowby which caused huge clouds of blue smoke on the highway every now and then. It was still driveable as long as I didn't put too much load on it. You should have heard the pistons slapping around, it's a miracle I didn't lose a skirt or worse. Piston to cylinder wall clearance was almost a millimeter (not measured, just eyeballed). Fact is I could wiggle the pistons in all directions. If you have the time and budget to do a full rebuild, I highly recommend it.

_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Alberta, Canada
Erratic clouds of blue smoke aren't really typical of piston/ring issues, that sounds more like oil was pooling up in top end and making its way into air cleaner, we have seen that a few times. That said, I wonder if to much blowby past rings was part of the cause in which case it could have been ring related, hard to say.
New pistons and reborn is best, and not terribly expensive, hands down. Make sure to try to get a machine shop that is willing to fit your pistons correctly, as they often hone to a piston to wall clearance of a v8, which leaves you with new pistons yet your piston to wall clearance is at or above the actor spec right from the sart!
As far as just putting rings on, it's works very well. I don't exaggerate when I say I have done it hundreds of times with excellent success. You have to understand the risk, and inspect parts carefully, but it generally gets the job done. I don't know if I ever had one come back for oil burning after rings, but some did have piston slap cold. This was explained to owners before we did the job as a risk, and never really caused any grief. Warming the car up and not beating on it cold seemed to curb the problem and it never seemed to get significantly worse. By the time the second set of rings is worn out the car often is basically done.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Oss, the Netherlands
It may not have been the main cause of the smoke, but it certainly contributed to it. Anyway, I think OP should check the bores before deciding.

_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 316
Location: KC, Kansas
I'm going to rent a gauge to check as buying a gauge is just out of my price range at the moment. I don't have any piston wiggle in any direction. I checked shortly after I posted as I found out some more information. I'm still going to check the bore.

In a few months I may be getting an SX4 and the metro will become a cone killer. So the engine will get all the special treatment. Bore up, Header, lowered, most of the 9 yards. For now it's a daily and only has to run for a lil while longer.

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 316
Location: KC, Kansas
Oh and I forgot pictures. Saddly I didn't get any before pictures of cylinders with coolant floating on top. or the oil pan with coolant in it. or any of the unbolting process. I'll get more pictures of the blue waffle up soon. But for now..............

awaiting parts :/
Image

the mess I've made so far.
Image

head with 2 bad valves. Can you spot which ones they are?
Image

cyl 1:
Image

cyl 2:
Image

cly 3:
Image

Figured I'd throw the head in for fun. :D

Who no like head? huh? :dunno:

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
Posts: 340
Location: Palm Springs, Calif
Pictures!
Did someone post some pictures.
They must really want some help.


Convertible mirror, at least on the passenger side.
I like that Maui sticker. Very relaxing.
You've got a good week's cleaning to go on that engine.
I'd invest in a gallon of Simple Green, and some used tooth brushes.
Maybe a case of beer, a decent head set, and some good tunes.
Then I'd clean everything which goes under that red hood.
I mean everything, even the firewall.

What the hell did you do to that oil pan?

You reinvent the automobile (air cleaner modification) and a day won't go by and you'll have to look under the hood.
You get that thing fixed right, (as originally intended) and you won't have to open the hood but once every two months.

Think about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 316
Location: KC, Kansas
Well she's dead Jim. Broken keyway made sure of that. A sad day. I just don't have the time to completely rebuilt the engine. So its time to move on.

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:10 am
Posts: 340
Location: Palm Springs, Calif
bigbadmonster wrote:
Well she's dead Jim. Broken keyway made sure of that. A sad day. I just don't have the time to completely rebuilt the engine. So its time to move on.

Perhaps the best platform for getting out of your difficult financial situation is staring you in the face.

If you took the time to put it together correctly, using a local machine shop for the basic assemblies like T3 ragtop does, then you probably would have a car which would last 10 years.

Of course, that's not taking into account Ricky Racer driving on city streets.
But for basic transportation, a Metro is pretty hard to beat.

They used to call it: Amer "I CAN".

You don't have the time? We're talking between 3 and 5 hours to reassemble properly.
Then you wait a day or two for all the goo to dry, add fluids and go go go, baby.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:27 pm
Posts: 316
Location: KC, Kansas
Unfortunately. And with regret. I had to let it go. Since I bought the car 10 months ago I put a lot of time and money into the car. New exhaust, two new CV axles, new brakes and calipers, water pump, alternator, battery, headlights, gutted interior, head, thermostat, dash cluster, and way too many other things to list. Sadly I have to abide by the rules of where I am staying. And the car could no longer sit where it was. I didn't want to see it go. But unfortunately. That was not up to me. I am out of time and money. Now I am out of a car completely. Taking everything apart and then back together would be past the deadline set for me. By the house and the city. A damn shame. But never the less. Someone will enjoy the many new parts I put on as it will be an amazing junkyard find. Very sad time.

_________________
1987 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (R.I.P.)
1986 Chevy Sprint base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Totaled)
1994 Geo Metro base 1.0 3cyl 993cc (Had to sell)
1996 Geo Tracker 1.6l 16v 4cyl 1590cc (Daily)


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