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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg
I thought i'd share some info with the rest of the group today. I've now gathered a few cranks for spares, so posting to the world will no longer effect ebay crank prices for me.
As some of you know, the Honda D16 Forged crankshaft can be modified to go into the Suzuki G16 block, but only some Honda cranks are suitable for this. The crankshaft that you want to use is the Honda D16Z6 crank. It is the only one that has the oil holes drilled in such a way that it is suitable for rotation as needed in the Suzuki engine. All other D16 cranks have oil holes that are drilled specific to the Honda crank rotation. The D16Z6 has it's oil holes drilled identical to those of the Suzuki GTI engine. This also allows the crank main journals to be ground to the suzuki Main size, without the oil hole location moving over too far on the main journal, as the hole is drill at a significant angle.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Location: burlington,ontario
very nice research, im going to be putting a 1.6 in my geo and this will really help down the road.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Location: Canby, OR
The stripped G16 block in my attic and I salute you!

Now I can start trolling ebay for one as well....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Location: Reykjavik
I still stand by my opinion that there's nothing wrong with the G16B crank, and nobody here is making enough power to really put it to the test. Still nothing wrong with knowing about this option.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg
baldurg wrote:
I still stand by my opinion that there's nothing wrong with the G16B crank, and nobody here is making enough power to really put it to the test. Still nothing wrong with knowing about this option.


Not everyone on this forum likes to spend time telling others about our projects...so i'm not sure if you really know who has what in a 1.6.
I can assure you that my 2 1.6's do need a better crank that that hollow wet noodle that you are so fond of. And yes, i've solved the short rod/stroke ratio properly too.

Darcy


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Location: Reykjavik
The fact that you've broken some cranks doesn't necessarily mean the crank is flawed.
Care to share with me what it takes to break one?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:44 am 
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Location: Karachi
Mr.Pipe wrote:
baldurg wrote:
I still stand by my opinion that there's nothing wrong with the G16B crank, and nobody here is making enough power to really put it to the test. Still nothing wrong with knowing about this option.


Not everyone on this forum likes to spend time telling others about our projects...so i'm not sure if you really know who has what in a 1.6.
I can assure you that my 2 1.6's do need a better crank that that hollow wet noodle that you are so fond of. And yes, i've solved the short rod/stroke ratio properly too.

Darcy


Nice going discussion hope you will share some info regarding d16Z6 crank swap in G16

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Location: louisiana
poses the problem the main and rod journals on the d16 crank are cut to diffrent specs. all the berings go by diffrent color codes for diffrent sizes but you can go with a aftermarket crank that the rods journals are cut to the same spec. and mains are cut the same across the board


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 Post subject: Minime, nah GRAIL ENGINE
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:06 am 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
The honda crank I have has the oil holes placed in the same orientation as my g13B crank, whereas the G16 has the oil holes in different placement, ill line up all 3 cranks side by side and take photos for example (when I get my block and crank back from th machining shop)
Main seal is different size (so either machine the crank down to g16 size, or make a new mainseal to suit the honda control ring) Oilpump gear is a slightly different size too, im going to try adapting a honda internal gear to the suzuki casing.
Thrust bearings are in different locations on the Honda crank as compared to the Suzuki, ill also update this in detail once I recieve my parts back.
:wink:

And I hereby suggest we christen this combination the "Grail engine" a G16 with custom internals and G13B head was what Monster used for pikes peak...
400Hp+ sounds like a crusade for a worthy cause


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Location: pakistan
thankyou very much for your info.i was trying to find that which honda crank should i use with g16a engine.
i want to ask you that which barring will be using with d16z6 crank in g16a block????one which are with g16
or which r with d16??????


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:25 am 
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Location: Lakeland , Florida
There shouldnt be any problem with the g16 crank. There are people running over 400hp on it. Why not just go with stronger rods and pistons. Or even with rods and then use vitara pistons and still make 400hp??? Thanks Stephen


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:05 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg
I had problems with the 1.6 crankshaft with a turbo engine making in the 260 HP range.
The crank flexes so much at the # 2 and 4 mains that it wipes out the edges of the bearings while leaving the center relatively intact. Was a std crank with King bearings...similar caracteristics to the old Vandervel bearings. One of the other cranks I checked for another Zuk guy had cracks at the # 2 main, with stress cracks at the near side of the #2 rod.

I think the 1.6 crank is good for a short time above 250 HP!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Location: Lakeland , Florida
Ill have to put that to the test then. You are the first real problem that i have heard with the crank. The only other was he "bent the crank 2mm but never pulled it out to check it at 200hp. Most of the guys around here that built them back in the day all said they never had a prob with the crank but the rods were a different story. I found a cheap rod solution as in about 3-400 dollars for name brand forged rods that i want to get a few miles on befor i post up what it is. Well good luck with the honda swap i guess. And just so you know suzukird sells a forged 1.6 crank that would probably be a cheaper solution but you have to call to get a price. It wasnt listed but they told me about 6months ago they had them or could get them. Thanks Stepen


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:52 am 
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Location: York, PA
I have a d16z6 crank at the machine shop right now. Costing around $400 for the machine work and another $170+ shipping for nitride treatment.

Flange the flex plate/flywheel bolts to needs plugged and holes relocated. The flange is also .5" larger. The snout for the timing pulley is .5" longer and after machining it down it needs the keyway cut in again. The Honda uses a larger bolt size to hold the timing pulley on.

I'll update info as I go.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Location: Coimbatore, India
bewitched gti wrote:
The honda crank I have has the oil holes placed in the same orientation as my g13B crank, whereas the G16 has the oil holes in different placement, ill line up all 3 cranks side by side and take photos for example (when I get my block and crank back from th machining shop)



Regarding the different types of Honda D16 cranks, how do the holes on the Z6 look - do they go right across the journal or do they have a cross drilled hole from the main to the rod journals ?

Also, since the oil is under pressure, should it matter in what direction the holes are drilled ?

Did you get around to photographing the G16 and the D16Z6 cranks side by side ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 am 
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Location: York, PA
Nobody seams to care about previous posts of mine but... my rods and pistons finally came. 138.633mm long CC, compared to 139.6mm CC stock. Dropping the piston .9668mm but I had the head decked .015" prevoiusly (.381mm) so it's only a .585mm difference and the block is getting decked some so compression will be near stock or ever so slightly lower.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:55 pm 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
Cool. Id be interested to see how the power output\engine response compares to our hybrids.
Good to see you applied a solution to using the FJR rods


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:06 am 
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Location: York, PA
Does anybody have the factory measurement of the deck height to the top of the piston? It looks like it's now a good 1mm+ sunk now... Lowered the compression some

Anyhow, I went to the machine shop this passed Friday and they have been working on it... slowly. Block cleaned, mains are line honed, block decked, and bored/honed. Crank main journals are all turned down, the rod journal that was spun has been prepped and welded up in prep for machineing down.

The other 3 rod journals are still at Honda OE spec so the ACT Race standard size D16 bearings that I got work! Oil pump end of crank is all good and measures out that it should fit the Tracker oil pump fine, snout is prepped to be cut down ~.500" and keyway cut for timing gear. They are moving the thrust bearing from the #3 location for the Tracker to the #4 location that Honda uses because the crank doesn't have any meat in the #3 spot to machine flat/bearing to run against and the #4 spot in the Tracker block is already rough machined from the factory so they only need to hit it ~.015" on each side and they'll fit.

#1 and #3 rod hit 2 random ridges in the bottom end. Shop is going to shave them flat but this isn't all that needs done in the bottom end. The rod bolts are ~.020" from the block and they feel safe with .060" as thats what most other engines call for. They are going to torque down the rod bolts, mark them where they go, then remove and shave off the tip/side of the head slightly to gain that clearance rather then grinding channels in the block that I feel could compromise its integrity.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:09 am 
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Nice project. I'll be watching this thread ;)


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:42 am 
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Location: York, PA
For further updates, go here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50488&p=381293#p381293


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