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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi,

I have started to speak with a few people about this after I have started actual work.....
I have 2 engine projects. 1 is new liner and the other with a block guard.

This time, I have photos of block guard machining.
I have been told that, generic block guard is no good so I have designed 1 myself in a CAD and used same data to get my spare block machined to suit.
Here is my photo of the block.
Image

Then, this is the photo of block guard itself. This is only 2 thou of 1" bigger than the actual gap it will fit into it.

Image

I may have to drill more for water ways but I need to buy a Suzuki OEM head gasket which is multi layer steel ones....
So, it will be fitted after warming up the block and tapped in. Then face of the block will be machined to increase CR as using Vitara pistons only give 7.2:1 or something as low as that.
The block will be skimmed by 1mm as that is how much Gti and Vitara pistons are different by.

What do you think guys?

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:25 pm 
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This photo is a block guard fitted and skimmed, ready for re-bore to 75mm.

Image

Once bored, it will get 5 thou will be skimmed.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Location: lake stevens, wa
Oh very nice.!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:16 am 
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Looking good bro :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Hi,

I had a spare 30 min today so I assembled piston and Gti con-rod to check my meassurement is correct.
I need to check TDC to make sure when I check, it is highest point piston will be.
Image

Then, I need to check with a deck gauge to see if bolck and piston is same height or pistons to be lower than the block.
Image

It seems.... piston and deck is same height. So it might work OK!

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:08 am 
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Location: Melbourne
best bore with a deck plate or you can get distortion in the sleeves. A slight distortion in the sleeves could put pressure on the block guard leading to cracking as has happened to other gti peeps that have used them.
Dave Homer recommends not to use them at all, after all the max sleeve force is experienced at the centre of the bore not at the top so better to grout to the welsch plugs instead.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Hi d,

I do appriciate Dave's advice which come from his experience.
I just do things bit differently as I have access to right machines as well as right people!

Anyway, I can tell you what I have done differently.

My block guard is fitted then bored out to 75mm so less likely what you are worried out will happen.
My block is CNC machined to same profile as my block guard profile then my block guard is only 1~2 thou bigger than the gap. Both of them are machined with same CNC programme so it will be better than you think.
Also, I have the block grouted as well just to be on the safe side.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg
Yes, your method is the only way that a block guard should be fit....unfortunately, very few are ever done that way.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:51 am 
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Looks very nice by the way! :) ! always liked your out of the box thinking especially the inlet side.

Ive been looking at doing the same thing but obviously it needs careful calculations and would really like 79mm bores with full sleeves like one that was for sale here a while back.

However my engine machinist pointed out that with a little offset boring 81mm could be achieved and then use 4age pistons off the shelve. These blocks are cheap to buy so perhaps I should let him play with one or cut one up.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:10 am 
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Hi d & Mr. Pipe,

I have Peugeot 106 liners which is 75mm bore at the moment.
With these sleeves, I can go 80mm but I have to machine flat first to fit into G13B. So with 80mm bore you can have 1517cc.
Toyota pistons, what size can you buy them? Do they have same size pin as well as width for con-rod?

I have managed to get a G16 Vitara oil pump and I will be fitting this to my engine. Since I don't have oil squirt hole in my con-rod, I will be fitting oil squirters with built in valve. G13B has so many casting boss which cater for all those mods I'm doing.

I hope all this mod will help my mod to get what I want from it.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:50 am 
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miniswift wrote:
Hi d & Mr. Pipe,

I have Peugeot 106 liners which is 75mm bore at the moment.
With these sleeves, I can go 80mm but I have to machine flat first to fit into G13B. So with 80mm bore you can have 1517cc. Toyota pistons, what size can you buy them? Do they have same size pin as well as width for con-rod?

I have managed to get a G16 Vitara oil pump and I will be fitting this to my engine. Since I don't have oil squirt hole in my con-rod, I will be fitting oil squirters with built in valve. G13B has so many casting boss which cater for all those mods I'm doing.

I hope all this mod will help my mod to get what I want from it.

Cheers
Atchi


The yota 4age pistons come in many guises the stock ones are
http://www.aclperformance.com.au/Toyota ... istons.htm
4ag rods have a 20mm pin whereas suzuki rods 19mm.

Also the B16 pistons are possible with similar valve angles
http://www.aclperformance.com.au/Toyota ... istons.htm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nippon-Racing-J ... 1012711994

I would stay with 75mm for boost, proven and reliable.

Im doing the g16b 3rd stage motor to go after the current one which after
driving it on stock rods for more than a year now and getting revved often
to 7500rpm using g13bb flywheel, crank pulley and ported manifolds for
better flow and less exhaust reversion I got to say that Ive gained faith in
the cast cranked, spaghetti big block G series more than ever.

So looking at a bit more capacity again with bigger valves, better springs, 270 cam,
little more lift, bigger throttle body and stainless header 4 into 1 to 2 inch exhaust
and lighter billet alloy flywheel/ crank pulley.
Its nothing radical or record breaking but the extra capacity and tweaks should
be a punchier NA setup hoping for around around 105hp atw and loads of tq under
the curve which is actually priority.

Stage 4 will be boosted but most likely with stock bores with grouted bottom
end and forgot to mention got to find better rods & rod bolts!.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:17 am 
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Location: Winnipeg
The G13, and G16 use a cast in sleeve, with a pattern of ribs on the outside of the sleeve. The way it's done, the sleeve becomes a structural part in keeping the block from splitting between the cylinders.
When the factory sleeve is removed, you loose that part of the structure...I know of no real good way to keep it strong that way. I gave up on sleeving them for that reason.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
Mr.Pipe wrote:
The G13, and G16 use a cast in sleeve, with a pattern of ribs on the outside of the sleeve. The way it's done, the sleeve becomes a structural part in keeping the block from splitting between the cylinders.
When the factory sleeve is removed, you loose that part of the structure...I know of no real good way to keep it strong that way. I gave up on sleeving them for that reason.


Too true and best in my next engine focus more on longer rods, very low compression pistons, Honda D16z6 crank and roller tipped rockers along with the other mods to make a reliable big block sohc head that comes close to the 130kws at the wheels achieved by sohc honda d16 tuners. Some say why not just use a Honda engine but in my rwd only suzuki allows this unless I spend massive on a reverse rotating rwd gearbox.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:44 am 
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BTW,
I'm not sure what the D16Z6 crank is like, but I used the D16A1 crank. The snout diam is the same, and the oiling holes identical to the GTi crank...might be the same as the Z6, i'm not sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:38 am 
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Hi Guys,

I'm building this engine to replicate my friend Johnny's(Garndi's mate also) engine.
He is running 9.2:1 CR in G13B with grouting done and he is getting nearly 370Bhp. He drives everyday in this setup and he has driven over 1 year. I had a ride in his and his car is crazy.

I just hope I can get 300Bhp with his assistance in my mk1 Gti with Justy AWD running gears.
I have 2 other method of making my engine to take big power.
I will either fit K-series sleeves which will be good for 30psi or Peugeot 106 rally which again is capable of taking 30psi again.
I think K-series will be the beast setup as these sleeves are cast steel not iron.

I have to cut flat to them to get in correct cylinder spacing.... But before I do this, I need to build 2 more engine for my friends so I need a spare block!

Good luck with your G16 engine. I wish I could get hands on G15 but they are not here in UK!

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:49 pm 
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Location: Melbourne
cast steel thats good news as I did consider steel pipes for the same thing.
Thanks for the heads up, love your thinking

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:32 am 
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Hi,

After almost 3 years, I had a progress with my next stage engine block.
It had OEM liners bored out ready to drop steel liners in.
All I need was liquid Nitrogen but where from? How tight will it be....

Anyway, I know why Bob didn't want to do it. I gave my mate Jimmy to entrust this task....

This is the result!

Image

It's not finished as yet.
I need oil squirters fitted, oil return from turbo and knock sensor boss drilled & tapped.

Neary there.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Hi,

I got my block bore it out to 76mm and skimmed head to clean up.
I think this Vitara pistons are different spec to OEM.

Image

I think my piston is 0.61mm too high and I need to machine it off so that it won't hit my cylindere head.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Hi,

I have now machined pistons to suit and I have dry assembled my engine to check how it is.

Image


All I need now is to sort out oil squirters. The one I have seems to interfere with my crankshafts so I need to think of somthing else.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi,

I checked with 2 engine builders and both of them tells me that I will need oil squirters.

So I check eBay for Renault Clio item and today, I got it back my block with them fitted.


Image

So I have to get oil return and knock sensor holes drilled and tapped next!

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Hi,

I have now fitted AN10 oil return to my block.

Image

I have a spare Mitsubishi Evo oil retrun pipe and tried but it is way too long so I need to shorten it.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:33 am 
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Great job :) :)


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