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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Title has been changed to reflect addition of new link.
This thread is actually how to take your transmission apart once you get it out of the car.
(Once you get it out of the car, you have to 'split the case'.)
After you 'split the case' (below) then you can rebuild the two shafts (input and counter).
For the rebuild of the input and counter shafts, go to this link:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50486
and a special thanks to long time member 95-3banger for the "Total Rebuild" with pictures.

You want to 'fix' your transmission and save money, but you aren't sure of all the steps involved?

If you are wondering what a professional would do in his shop before charging you hundreds of dollars have a look at the procedure for opening the transmission case. Just one mistake along the way can end up in a horror story.
The procedure below is a long read, but the actual work involved, for someone experienced is less than half an hour.

Read carefully and decide if he's worth the 'big bucks'. Most backyard mechanics are willing to work on engines, but the transmissions are remove/replace items. That is, you have a problem? Go to the junkyard and buy another and try it! This procedure is not for someone like that. This is a pictorial procedure, using the OEM Factory Service Manual, for separating the transmission case from its internals.
This thread is twice as long as necessary because we split cases on TWO different transmissions for you (MK1 first, and then the later style box). Don't panic; just take it one step at a time. There are 25 steps.

Drain and Remove Transaxle.

Image
1. Remove backup lamp switch.
2. Remove (7) bolts from the side case (#2 above) and remove side case.
Image
3. Remove snap ring and hub plate
Image
4. Remove shift fork screw and guide ball
Image
5. With the transmission in neutral, remove the roll pin
Image
6. Push in on gear shift shaft
Image
...slide synchronizer sleeve toward center of trans (see arrow) to engage 5th gear
Image
...another view
Image
...unstake and remove 5th gear retainer
Image
7. Remove everything in the brackets as a unit. #2 is showing what you want to avoid...
8. Remove 5th gear (drive) from the input shaft
9. Remove 5th gear (driven) from the countershaft
Image
10. Remove 7 screws on retainer plate. Mark or tag spacer shims if present.
Image
11. Remove 3 bolts on left case cap and remove cap.
Image
12. Remove the roll pin using the correct diameter drift/punch
Image
13. Install a drift into the roll pin hole and raise the shaft for removal of the yoke and roll pin.
Image
14. Remove the bolt retaining the reverse spring and detent ball. Remove the spring and ball.
Image
15. Remove the locating bolt for the gear hift/selector shaft.
Image
16. Remove the 4 bolts of the gear shift guide case (#3 above)
17. Remove the gear shift/selector shaft assembly along with the low speed select spring (#1 above).
Image
18. Remove the 3 bolts retaining the detent balls and springs as shown. Also remove the springs.
Image
19. Remove 13 bolts which hold the two casings together. Here, two are left.
Image
20. Insert a large flat screwdriver between the two casings as shown, and in three or 4 other locations.
Image
Image
Image
21. Lift the left case straight up. All parts whill remain on the lower case as shown.
Image
22. Raise 5th (#1 above) and reverse (#2 above)
Image
...to give clearance for removal of the reverse gear and shaft
23. Remove 2 bolts retaining reverse idler shift lever to the case; remove lever.
Image
24. Remove 5th and reverse gear shift shafts together (as an assembly).
Image
Image
25. Remove remaining input and countershafts as well as the two shift shafts (everything in the white bracket) as an assembly (together).

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Last edited by Phil N Ed on Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Nicely done. Presumably this is a Mk1 transmission - as it is not the same as the one I have (Mk3)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Good stuff Phil, I would recommend NOT taking out the 3 bolts retaining the detent balls and springs until after you have split the case as they make sure the gears stay in the bottom half of the case, other wise sometimes the shafts come out stuck in the wrong half of the case.

Yes this is a mk1 gearbox, this is the early type and most common mk1 box, its used in all mk1s from 83 until about 87/88 ish when some of the last mk1s had a revised gearset layout similar to the mk2/3 box, I'm still trying to find out the change over point, but thanks to Phil and JV&S things are a bit clearer now :mrgreen: .

Here is the related manual for this gearbox that Lihtan stickied in the transmission section

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26290


Last edited by Dattman on Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:23 pm 
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A+ Post! Incredible pictures, step by step. I don't need this now, but i have no doubt i'll draw on this thread in the future. Thanks tons Phil. Again, great post.

Are there many differences between varying versions of transmissions, or is this something that would be appropriate for a guideline for other transmission rebuilds?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:35 pm 
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The mk2/3 is almost identical except the gearshift yoke has a bolt and there's a bolt for the reverse gear idler shaft, a few less bolts inside the bell housing otherwise you could easily use this guide to disassemble a mk2/3 box.

Well done Phil, I know how much time this would of taken to document, been meaning to do it for a few years :mrgreen:

Mods please make this a sticky!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:34 pm 
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l4mbch0ps wrote:
Are there many differences between varying versions of transmissions, or is this something that would be appropriate for a guideline for other transmission rebuilds?

DIY Black Box Disassembly:
Same as above with a few differences.
First, see if you have the black box:
Image
Here's one.
Image
another view
Image
Image
If you have that transmission here are a couple of differences; several were noted above:
Image
#1. The reverse switch is in a different location.
Image
#2. The black cover has 6 bolts vs. 7 on the older style transmission. Two require a 12mm wrench.
Image
The black box also has the oil filler plug in a different location.
Image
Here are the two covers. The black has a more developed oiler for the input shaft.(not clearly visible in the photo)
Image
#4. Remove shift fork screw and guide ball: the screw is now removed via hex wrench:
Image
#6."...unstake and remove 5th gear retainer" The retainer is now larger:
Image
Image
so you will have to use a 1 inch socket or hand wrench (or MM equivalent).
Image
10. "Remove 7 screws on retainer plate. Mark or tag spacer shims if present." It is now 6 phillips screws. A "hand impact tool set" is highly recommended. There are no spacers due to a change in the input shaft bearings: they are no longer tapered roller bearings. The countershaft retains tapered roller bearings in a cage at each end.
Dattman wrote:
The mk2/3 is almost identical except the gearshift yoke has a bolt

Image
12. "Remove the roll pin using the correct diameter drift/punch" Is now changed to "remove bolt..."

Image
Dattman wrote:
The mk2/3 is almost identical except the there's a bolt for the reverse gear idler shaft

14. "Remove the bolt retaining the reverse spring and detent ball." Location of reverse bolt is as shown above. There is no spring or ball.

Dattman wrote:
I would recommend NOT taking out the 3 bolts retaining the detent balls and springs until after you have split the case as they make sure the gears stay in the bottom half of the case, otherwise sometimes the shafts come out stuck in the wrong half of the case.

18. "Remove the 3 bolts retaining the detent balls and springs as shown. Also remove the springs."
Image
You will note the two different size springs used to hold the balls against the shafts. The earlier models use one size only. The suggestion to do this step later is clever, and will not compromise your work.
Dattman wrote:
The mk2/3 is almost identical except there are a few less bolts inside the bell housing

Image
19. "Remove 13 bolts which hold the two casings together." The two bolts shown above are the only two accessed from inside the bell housing. Removing these at the start of disassembly might save you a few seconds.
Image
The left case is very light. The black box has two points where you can safely pry the cases apart; the MK1's have 4 such points.
Image
#22. Reverse can be removed without raising 5th gear.


The text (and order) for the first post in this thread is from the Factory Service Manual.

Special Tools:

Impact screwdriver (highly recommended)
Snap ring pliers
Drift/Punch/Allen wrench to drive out pins
Several Plastic 'Sandwich Bags'
Image
to keep the different bolts, nuts, pins, etc. separated.

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:50 pm 
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:shock:

What's that "standard" wrench doing on that metric bolt! =)













Nice step by step for the gear boxes, none the less! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:02 pm 
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gamefoo21 wrote:
:shock:

What's that "standard" wrench doing on that metric bolt! =)

Nice step by step for the gear boxes, none the less! :mrgreen:

.
I guess you realy hate me then because i have put a few Chevrolet motors in jaguars.
.
Dude it's called engenuity are you telling me that you've never used a 1/2 wrench when a 13 mm wasn't handy
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Image
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.Good write up phil .
I have split a couple of cases and yes you can read about spliting a case
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.Image
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but to see real life pictures of it is a major bonus....THANK YOU phil......................S
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Excellent write up.
Just for that I should buy you a beer...but better wait till you put it back together =)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:08 am 
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jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
gamefoo21 wrote:
:shock:

What's that "standard" wrench doing on that metric bolt! =)

Nice step by step for the gear boxes, none the less! :mrgreen:

.
I guess you realy hate me then because i have put a few Chevrolet motors in jaguars.
.
Dude it's called engenuity are you telling me that you've never used a 1/2 wrench when a 13 mm wasn't handy

NO, but I have occassionally used a 10mm spanner on a 3/8th nut... :mrgreen:

Seriously I would not recommend using anything except a 22mm socket on that nut for a mk1 and 26mm socket for the mk2/3, if you don't there's a good chance you will damage the nut and it needs to be tight.



.Image
This is a classic case of undoing the 3 detent balls and springs before splitting the case, note gears and selector rods stuck in the wrong half of the case.

Wow Phil that was fast work on the mk2/3 box :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:46 pm 
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So where were these wonderful pics when I did my first rebuild?

I had to read the FSM step-by-step and follow the written word.

GREAT JOB :!: :!: :!:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Thanks phill zuki on!! naaaaamm naaaam naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Time to update this thread.
If you have followed so far, you've got the tranny apart.
To continue, follow "Dr. Bill" on another web site as he pulls apart the two shafts in his own special way:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbullet ... p?t=941461 Part 1

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbullet ... p?t=944174 Part 2

He uses a shot from one of our members "Way", so I don't think he'll mind if we link to his DIY.

Eventually, we'll be putting up a DIY rebuild thread of our own, so hold on to your hats!

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:10 pm 
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I have just used this guide plus Dr. Bill's to take mine apart, both were extremely helpful and saved me a huge amount of time, there is one thing I would like to add that I did differently. When it comes to taking out the 3 springs and detent balls, I split the case first as suggested earlier, then I removed the bolts and springs, but as I didn't have a magnetised screw driver to be able to pull the detent balls out with, I replaced the bolts leaving the springs out, removed all the remaining parts from the case and then one at a time, removed the bolt, then with my hand covering the hole tilted the case until the detent ball fell out. I know it probably makes a bit more work than using a magnet, but it saved me having to go and buy one.

Just thought it might be helpful to someone.

Sam

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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:26 am 
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I have the 1.0L gearbox that I need for the final drive to convern my GTI box. I used Dr Bills excelent feature to pull the gearbox apart. I did try to use a gear puller from the local car parts store but i bent that, welded in some strength and still bent it. Then I bought the Harbor freight puller, added longer bolts and pulled the 3rd/4th gear off with ease. The main difference is I heated up each gear which helped with the removal. Cold was near on impossible to move the gear. Once heated "pop" and off it came. The old bearings I just used my trusty angle grinder to remove them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Oooh, nice one. Can't believe I missed that one, but then again, I wasn't looking for it.
Should come in handy soon.
The only time I split a case was 'cause the axle wouldn't come out. I removed the axle
and swapped in another trans. Took care of my 2nd gear problem.
The other one's been sitting on the shelf for a couple years.
No luck finding synchros.

So the question of the day is parts interchange turbo vs. n/a.
As the differential is of the 4 pinion design, I assume the rest of the internals
are ok to harvest parts from a n/a standard version trans?
I had it in my mind somewhere that the gearing was different too for
the turbo?

Option #1 is to buy a used one, found a nice one w/75k miles, but $500
is not in my budget this month. Still considering that as a spare.
I sold my other spare for cheap long ago, thinking I'd never need it, big mistake.

Option #2 is swapping the worn internals from a more commonly found
n/a trans. More of a challenge but cheaper in the long run. And I can at least
upgrade the bearings with new and some of the seals that are still available.

So are the gears and synchros the same for turbo vs. n/a?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:49 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
So are the gears and synchros the same for turbo vs. n/a?

YES


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:32 pm 
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Actually I'm trying to remove my transaxle side cover to paint it and it is binding where the two 12mm nuts were. Now that I read the service manual there are 'two studs' which have to be removed, I guess have to double-nut these and reverse them out. And also whack with a rubber mallet if the case is stuck.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Very nice right up, I used it the other night to disassemble my trans so I could weld up my diff.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:12 am 
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[quote="Phil N Ed"][b]

12. Remove the roll pin using the correct diameter drift/punch
Image
13. Install a drift into the roll pin hole and raise the shaft for removal of the yoke and roll pin.
Image
quote]


I would have never attempted this w/out your write-up, so thanks for this great pic tutorial. One problem I'm having is in removing the roll pin & yoke. First the FS manual calls for a 6mm punch (ie special tool) & when I tried that nothing moved. Used a much smaller punch (5.32") and the pin came out. Still though I can't remove the shaft from the yoke? I removed the drain plug and can push the assembly up but it does not separate? Am I missing something as the yoke seems still attached to the shaft? Shouldn't it be sliding out w/out the pin there?

Thanks
Sol


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:49 am 
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Sol wrote:
Am I missing something?

Thanks
Sol

The mistake is probably on my side.

First, with the earlier (pre 'black box') transmissions, the shift shaft is held in place by roll pins.
The later ones use a bolt
Image
and are easier to take apart.
Over on GeoMetroForum someone lambasted me saying that you CAN change a shift shaft seal and boot without splitting the case and they did it, etc. etc. etc.
They were working on a later model transmission with the bolt where your roll pin is.
You can change the shift shaft seal and boot as they said, but it is much easier to spend an additional 20 minutes to split the case.
On the earlier transmission, I'd like to see that smart ass knock out the two roll pins on his back in the dirt, working upside down on an oily set of roll pins.
Good luck with that, although I suppose it COULD be done.
Also, it is easier with the transmission out on the bench - another hour max for a competent back yard mechanic.
So changing the shift shaft seal and boot without splitting the case, with the transmission in the car is highly overrated.

Second, when I say your shift shaft is held in place by roll pins, it is because there are TWO roll pins - one inside the other.
Check Lihtan's uploads and see if you can find the pictures. If they are of the earlier tranny, then you'll see the two pins.
If it shows the bolt, as in the picture I've posted above, then it is the later manual tranny.

Last, in order to get the outer roll pin out, you've got to push out the inner one.
You used a punch, but a person can use a nail - just file it flat.
Once you get the inner roll pin out, the outer roll pin can also be pressed out in the same manner using a larger diameter nail/drift.
There is VERY little clearance on the back side of that fitting, so the roll pin may have to be pulled out.
I think I used a tiny nail, put it inside the roll pin, grabbed it with a pair of Vise Grips and tapped it up and out.
This takes some patience and would be possible, but not likely on your back, etc. etc.

See if that helps, and post your results in this thread.
Obviously, if you could get a picture of how much you've done so far with that shift joint, it would help the next guy who attempts the earlier transmission.
Also, a picture of the roll pins side by side would be nice because there are no pictures of the roll pins above and would be of great assistance to those with hair on their .....wrenches.

Without seeing what you've done, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've drifted out the first (inner) pin, and still have the outer to go.
Are you changing final drives?

Trivia question: Do you know what goes in the slots at the left of the case in the picture above?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:17 am 
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Removing the roll pins mentioned was the most difficult part of
the whole process for me.
I could not get the center pin out, and removed both pins as one
with a sturdy punch and some firm hammering.
I've dreamed of making a tool to press it out as some sort
of mini C-Clamp that would remove and install for future rebuilds.
A tip that helps is to make sure the shaft is fully inserted in the
hole, Phil's pic shows a bar holding it in place. Since it's under
spring pressure, you need that shaft or say a block of wood
to push it back and hold it so that it doesn't stick out and
reduces flexing when you start hammering on the punch.

Phil's pic guide was a great help in splitting the case.
Also reading the FSM tranny section several times and
having it for reference.

As previously noted, do not remove the shift shaft
balls before you split the case or your stuff will
go flying apart. I learned this the hard way and lost
some balls on the 5th/reverse shift shaft fork that
I had trouble finding. After using the FSM it was then
that I found out what that ball was for after I found
it in the pile of parts that fell out when I split the case.

Here's some tips on replacing the bearings and also some
notes on orientation of the gears. One shaft comes apart
with the gears and synchros, the other shaft is basically
one piece and not serviceable if damaged other than
replacing the bearings. But the shaft that comes apart
is under spring tension, so if you remove the bearing
you need to hold all the gears/synchros in place or you
will lose the orientation and it will take you some figuring
and the diagram in the FSM to correctly line everything up,
particularly the oil holes. That's all covered in my write
up here:
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47916&start=125

Another tip that will help is to mark the bearing shims for reassembly.
Since the one end of the shaft bearings have floating races, it is
the shims that provide the proper preload on the bearings.
There is 1 for each shaft and you need to mark them on the end
of the case so you know which one goes where. I used a marker/
paint pen with a simple two lines on one shim overlapping on the case
end and one line on the other shim overlapping on the case.
When I put the case back together, I just lined up the marks
on the shims. Of course you will want to remove and bag
the shims so you don't lose them, your ID marks will make
it a no brainer when you finally re assemble. If you're lucky,
the shims will match up, if you have any variation (after replacing
the shaft bearings) it is possible you may have to get different
shims.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
Sol wrote:
Am I missing something?

Thanks
Sol



See if that helps, and post your results in this thread.
Obviously, if you could get a picture of how much you've done so far with that shift joint, it would help the next guy who attempts the earlier transmission.
Also, a picture of the roll pins side by side would be nice because there are no pictures of the roll pins above and would be of great assistance to those with hair on their .....wrenches.

Without seeing what you've done, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've drifted out the first (inner) pin, and still have the outer to go.
Are you changing final drives?

Trivia question: Do you know what goes in the slots at the left of the case in the picture above?


OK thanks for the clarification, it all makes sense now :shock: I did have the inner out and thought there was one pin, I removed the outer roll pin with a 7/32 punch and here are the pictures (taken by a cheap cell phone camera -all I own) the first are the placed sise by side & the second one above the other

Attachment:
Shiftyoke rollpines sdebysde.jpg
Shiftyoke rollpines sdebysde.jpg [ 66.2 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]
Attachment:
Shift Yoke roll Pinsin ordr.jpg
Shift Yoke roll Pinsin ordr.jpg [ 67.22 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]



So my task was to see the damage done to my transmission (see viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56734). The case is split and it turns out the grinding noise was a bad (call it mangled) left input shaft bearing (tried to take a picture but it didn't work)
Attachment:
Leftbearing.jpg
Leftbearing.jpg [ 34.21 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]


Fished out the metal pieces and 14 bearings,
Attachment:
Whatsleft ofleft.jpg
Whatsleft ofleft.jpg [ 82.76 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]


two which melted together and upset the rest of them
Attachment:
fusedtwobearings.jpg
fusedtwobearings.jpg [ 56.53 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]


So far every thing else looks OK ie no damage to gears or synchros- it's just that now the bearing race is on the shaft with nothing to grip to pull it?
Attachment:
Raceinput.jpg
Raceinput.jpg [ 76.7 KIB | Viewed 32980 times ]


So this is my first transmission and I'm thinking of getting a kit with bearings and seals and putting it back on the car? Is this crazy?






As far as the trivia slot my only guess would be a groove for the starter. (?)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
Quote:
So this is my first transmission and I'm thinking of getting a kit with bearings and seals and putting it back on the car? Is this crazy?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-CM-Sprint-MV2-Transmission-Bearing-Kit-1985-89-/170567630818?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b69f7fe2&vxp=mtr

Image


Quote:
it's just that now the bearing race is on the shaft with nothing to grip to pull it?


Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:01 am
Posts: 87
Location: AZ
Thanks Jamal! Great info, & I just ordered a kit. I did inquire with Fainya , but he doesn't do the earlier (pre89) tranys> because he can't get parts.


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