TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:30 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
use a caliper side for straight edge (shown with red line on picture), put it on shims that are on bearing and then measure clerance with those (2nd picture): (i don't know how to call them in english :P )
Image
Image

i can take a picture for you tommorow since i have one gearbox with missing 5th gear in garage atm :)

also, if you use same counter shaft and same gears (only new synhrons and bearings, which are SGP) stock shim should be the right one..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:36 pm
Posts: 90
Location: SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Teeth wrote:
I sort of doubt that's your issue, but I am really not an expert here :huh:


I agree, I doubt it's the issue. Next time I have to open a box, I will use your shim making idea, but maybe thin steel sheet.

My solution was to buy another transmission. Shifts like a dream.

_________________
Ofensus Racing
Rally Racing Geo Metro


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:36 pm
Posts: 90
Location: SF Bay Area, CA, USA
[quote="lukak"](2nd picture): (i don't know how to call them in english :P )/quote]

Feeler guages. I just didn't know if there was a technique to it besides just measuring (eg. must be in this gear, etc.)

Thanks both of y'all for the info.

_________________
Ofensus Racing
Rally Racing Geo Metro


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Blue Lake, CA
@Teeth, you know those shims are hardened right? Those are very hard to keep them from compression when it goes from load on, to load off, then back again. Soft shims wear thin, then wear out, and run around inside the unit to who knows where. Also using a snap ring can do the same thing. One end gets loose. Then its in your gears.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:47 pm 
Offline
Teamswift Racer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
One guy on gmf made a shim from cardboard and surprisingly is still going fine, not ideal but better than lots of free play I suppose.
The shims are still available new from suzuki dealers but thats not much help to US folk now I guess.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
Hmmm.

Well, I was aware that aluminum is compressible, so that's why used the thickest stack that would be within spec. Better than cardboard, but I do have to admit that my transmission just dropped 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

I believe the problem was a massive bearing failure and I don't think it was caused by the shims, but I guess I'll take my transmission apart and find out :cry:

I am sure I screwed something up :oops: as everything looked pretty good when I buttoned it up. On the other hand, running it hard at the autocross probably didn't help either.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
well small piece of silicone (or whatever you use to seal housing together) that drop into box can close a hole in shaft for lubricating or something.. or small piece of metal can damage bearing enough that in time it will fall apart..

for racing we often take it apart and just check everything (maybe replace few parts if needed,..) and put it back together..
after you do it let's say 1x per month it's not that complicated anymore :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 309
Location: concord nh
wondering if you where having the same issue I am. Mine shifts from 1-2 no problem but it wont shift down from 3-2 no grinding just wont go I was thinking its a syncro.

_________________
02 bmw 330ci zhp
'91 Geo Metro Convertible 5-speed parts car
'92 project squishy viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43375
'98 Chevy K2500
'76 Harley Davidson FXE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
is there anywhere to buy the gears if mine ar chewed up?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
best is to get another used gearbox.. for spare parts or to change it with your current gearbox..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
but thats $130


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
how much do you expect to give for parts? not sure for usa, but in eu only bearings, seals and synchros cost 200eur or even more...
and for gears, there are only used gears from another used gearbox.. i doubt anyone make new ones..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Alberta, Canada
Exactly. In general I'm currently the only source of gears and internal trans parts (I assume this because I get requests from all over the world now and again). I sell most orders at about $100-150. If I don't see enough its not worth the hassle of tearing them down and cleaning/shipping parts. If these parts could be purchased new, the cost would be ridiculous. Toyota matrix c59 trannies have issues, I've priced out the two gears for 5th at $500+. It's what makes manual trannies so tough to rebuild at shops, one or two hard parts and they become cost prohibitive, that's why I try and offer parts for teamswifters when I can so they can repair gearboxes rather than park the cars.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
i can get a synchro/bearing kit off ebay for $90


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Alberta, Canada
So can I. Discussion was on replacing chewed up gears. A bearing synchro kit won't include gears.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:42 pm 
Offline
Teamswift Racer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
DMWdave and myself are also selling 2nd hand gearbox parts, most of the stuff I ship is to the States because you can't get new parts easily in North America, the fact is parts like 2nd gear are still being made today, they are exactly the same as the ones in the new k series boxes available worldwide except NA, new low speed syncro hubs are available new EX-Japan but at around US$300 it makes more expensive than most metros, cheaper to buy a complete good condition box for $200.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
95pontiacfirefly wrote:
i can get a synchro/bearing kit off ebay for $90


in usa yes.. last time i ordered it to EU it was 125usd + shipping + import tax.. that was 180+eur at that time..
still cheaper than buying original SGP parts from dealer.. only bearings are 150+eur.. (both differential bearings and small one on input shaft are standard bearings so i can get those for around 20eur, both seals on differential are like 2-3eur each, seal on input shaft is like 5-10eur, depends on quality (it's not exacly right one but it's work for street use and rally n/a gti (up to 9000rpm))
so i buy those standard bearings and seals, order non-standard ones from suzuki dealer (still 100+eur) and try to get some used 1.0 3cyl (non turbo ofc) gearbox with low km's.. (around 60eur if lucky, there was alot 1.0 3cyl and 1.3 non gti swifts around) then i took apart my gti box and donor one, and use best parts from both (everything except differential, FD and 3-4-5 gears are the same in all those boxes)

ohh, and if possible try to get japan made box (EU market mk2 and mk3 - up to around 1996 i think) and not hungary made (mk4 - 1996-2002 i think) they used some parts a little better (from my experience)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Canada
any 6 speed boxes that would fit? lol


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:45 pm 
Offline
Make love, not moderators
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:26 pm
Posts: 1930
Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
It might be time to start using the larger frame boxes.. Someone needs to make a jig to drill to box for the mounting and produce a kit to adapt the intermediate shaft...

_________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:20 am 
Offline
Teamswift Racer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
DMWdave in Australia already makes the parts for the large frame box conversion, still a very expensive option, best thing you can do is repair your box the first sign that it 'snicks' changing into 2nd gear, then you only need 1st and 2nd syncro rings and some seals, the longer you drive on it the more parts you'll need to replace.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
the problem is.. gearbox fall apart before end of first event after rebuild :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Does the the short flange on one side of the high speed hub on the input shaft face toward 4th gear and the longer flange on the other side face toward 3rd gear or do I have it backwards?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
i don't have anything apart to check, but put 3rd gear on and then "selector hub" if turned right it will go all the way on 3rd gear.. if turned wrong it won't go competly on 3rd gear..

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... rans12.jpg

if you look this pic (copied from first post) you can see difference on hub engagment teeth for 3rd and 4th gear.. also, as on pic, some gearboxes (but not all) have 3rd gear side more rounded on hub than 4th gear side..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Thanks. The small print on the fsm does say left, but I had to think which left. Of course it is the standard direction orientation while in the vehicle. The first time through is always nerve wracking when you really don't know where everything should sit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
A little further discussion on getting the shim correct that preloads the bearings on the output shaft:

After the PBR can fix shown above, my next "solution" to this problem was a thin piece of steel cut with shears from an aerosol can. That worked better, or at least, other than possibly some under-torqued screws holding the plate, I found no damage or issues that could have been in any way related to the shim now that I've got the box torn down again :roll:

That being said, I am determined to "do it right" this time:

For reference, here are the Suzuki part #'s for the shims:

09170-33421-040 SHIM (T: 0.4)
09170-33421-045 SHIM (T: 0.45)
09170-33421-050 SHIM (T: 0.5)
09181-33001 SHIM (T: 0.55)
09181-33002 SHIM (T: 0.6)
09181-33003 SHIM (T: 0.65)
09181-33004 SHIM (T: 0.7)
09181-33005 SHIM (T: 0.75)
09181-33006 SHIM (T: 0.8)
09181-33007 SHIM (T: 0.85)
09181-33008 SHIM (T: 0.9)
09181-33009 SHIM (T: 0.95)
09160-33003 SHIM (T: 1)
09160-33004 SHIM (T: 1.05)
09160-33005 SHIM (T: 1.1)
09160-33006 SHIM (T: 1.15)

I am pleased to report that I was actually able to purchase a complete set of the middle part numbers, 09181-33001 through 09181-33009 at http://www.boats.net (because, you know, that's where you would think to get obsolete Suzuki parts right?) for $18.17 plus shipping :D

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group