TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:44 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:36 am
Posts: 29
Hello out there. My five speed manual 1992 started missing into Second, mainly while turning Right. That was a week ago- now it grinds or misses rather than going into gear. I adjusted the shifter as the manual says, but no change. In my driveway it goes into all other gears fine, but grinds and doesn't go into Second. Diagnoses? Cure? Anyone out there want to overhaul this transaxle for hire?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
Congratulations, you have encountered the nearly inevitable premature failure of the 2nd gear synchros.

Yes, the trans will need to be rebuilt to fix it, but you can double clutch in the meantime (clutch pedal in, take out of gear, clutch pedal out in neutral, clutch pedal back in, blip throttle to match revs, put in 2nd).

If you search team member Fainya, he has a business rebuilding these transmissions and does excellent work, though he's a bit eccentric and doesn't agree with the rest of us about using Synchromesh-spec gear oil to help prevent this problem in the first place =)

It's also possible to get rebuild kits on ebay and DIY using the info posted here in several places--it's a significant chunk of work and requires some special tools (mainly a press) but if you're going to rebuild a FWD transmission it's about as straightforward as it gets.

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:36 am
Posts: 29
Thank you. I changed the hypoid twice and then Redline MTL since 45,000 miles. 140,000 now. I'll look for that guy. Know his number?

Thanks again!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:48 am
Posts: 99
Location: Blue Lake, CA
There are other builders on the forum. And like fainya I know SM oil is not for our units. It has a friction modifier designed to work on late truck trans. It works on lined syncros like in truck trans. It does nothing for brass syncros. Nothing. What is helping it going to a lighter weight oil. If you want to fix this unit, stop driving it and get on and fix it. The longer you drive it, the more $ it will cost. Each time it grinds, hops out of our clicks, its damaging the engagement teeth on the slider and gear. They both wear at the same rate, but backwards from each other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:36 am
Posts: 29
Good points. I'm on it. Thanks.

What is SM oil?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Wahiawa, HI
Murf is referring to Synchromesh-spec transmission oil that satisfies the requirements for a couple of GM part numbers and one Chrsyler application.

When GM found that Geos were regularly coming in to dealerships with damaged second gear synchros, they put out a TSB (like a recall, but in this case only valid for people that brought in cars with problems) that specified refilling the trans with synchromesh-spec GM oil because it was specifically made for transmissions with brass synchros. You can get a version of this made by Pennzoil at many auto parts stores if you look hard enough, and many on the forum use this stuff religiously.

Murf's statement about not doing anything to protect brass synchros may be true, but if so that means the oil doesn't do what it says it does on the bottle (which is protect "yellow metals") and that GM's TSB was not effective. It's true that synchromesh is a little light for our transmissions and is probably not as good at protecting the actual gears and diff--but 90% of the time what breaks is the brass synchros, not gears or diff so draw your own conclusions. I use it, and will at least vouch that it can sometimes improve the operation of a trans that is already worn, though probably not save it in the long run. Though it's way less common, high hp applications can break diffs and gears too, so you decide what you need.

Throw into the mix that non-synthetic GL-5 gear oils of the correct weight usually include a friction modifier that actually damages brass synchros, but some sythetics at least do no harm and work for both gl4 (what the manual calls for) and gl5 and now everything is totally clear right?

If you want to go down a rabbit hole, keep researching, but honestly, the synchros are gonna go eventually no matter what you put in it :( so double clutch and be nice to the trans.... people that know this have strange and rabid opinions about gear oil hoping it will make a difference--it probably does, but how many transmissions do you have to break before you're sure you know the answer? =)

_________________
Quote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Spanish Inquisition Racing chip burning service--build yourself a custom chip!
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=57216


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:27 pm
Posts: 817
Location: walsh,alberta,canada
gl-5 outboard gear oil works great, if you can find it. proper spec oil. last time I found it, it was only sold by the pint, no liters available....tried using synthetic gear oil, the gears would grind more!
now I use syncro-mesh oil.
when I got my gti (over 200,000 k) it would grind a bit going into second gear....so I drained the oil (looked like atf, smell was gear oil...gm transfer case oil!) re-filled with syncro-mesh, at first, second gear would grind, but after a few miles the problem went away....smooth shifts, no more 2nd gear grind, even at high rpms.

:wink: and it does say on the bottle ''use to protect yellow metals'' (brass-bronze syncros) :wink:

it works for me!

_________________
89 1.0 turbo firefly
2"exhaust,no cats/resonator
3 tech 6*gear
3 tech turbo grind cam
3 tech cylinder head/w/port,polish,blend,oversized s/s valves
gti brake swap
89 white gti twincam....need I say more?
92 metro aka ''blue lump of coal''
92 white metro lsi vert
91 blue chevy sprint (gas sipper)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:36 am
Posts: 29
All is perfectly clear, Gentlemen! Jeez... Well, you guys are very much on it. Fainya likes Mobil One hypoid... sounds good, as the brass compatible debate gave him that conclusion, and likely some of you all are there. I assume that it's a GL-4, not a differential GL-5, blend. Changing to that now may be interesting, as tests go. It's had Redline MTL for 90,000... GL-4, synthetic, with references to brass synchros on Redline's info sheet. How dare the synchros be unhappy! Total mileage is 140,000 now. I had a 1996 Metro from 48,000-180,000 miles and never a grind on Redline. Maybe Suzuki fixed the issue by 1996. The 1992 convertible ground and missed Second gear last week, but not since adjusting shifter as book says/ praying to machine gods. (It ground right away, but a few double clutches later it stopped). I'll have it rebuild as soon as I can- within two months. Fainya wrote me and has a great plan for these differentials.

Thank all of you guys- great work all around.
S


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group