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87t1
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Location: NorCal, USA
hi to all

I just wanted to post this because it affects all G10 engines.
When doing a head gasket change or motor rebuild, the head gasket oil drainback hole
(left rear on gasket seen from above) can cause a problem. As the cam bearing journals
and the lifter bores wear, more oil flows into the head from the oil system. Also, some
head gaskets oil drain holes are too small or mis-aligned. This causes oil to build up
in the head, causing heavy smoking, oil in the air cleaner. In different posts, people have
said, "just open up the oil return hole". Here is what I did to the gasket--

This pic shows an unmodified gasket

Image

This pic shows the mod shapes on a head

Image

I trimmed the hole to size using a small pair of dikes. the reason for the oil build up is in the left rear
(seen from the top) drain hole, the hole is stepped and offset like a fish ladder, and the small hole
aggrevates the problem. The other important part is the block oil check valve. In a G10, the oil flow is
restricted inside the head. The block also contains a ball check valve to reduce the effects of
"dry starts" on the head. Pic of block showing oil galley with check valve.


Image

When you tear down a G10, remove and store the oil check valve. During assembly,
install the check valve in the block and enlarge the oil return hole in the head gasket.

G10 Head oil gallery restrictor (screws into the head)
GM P/N 91174219
Suzuki P/N 11112-73002

I will find and post the P/N of the G10 block oil check valve.


good luck :)

edit:post part numbers and fix spiellinng.


Last edited by 87t1 on Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:57 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Gasoline Fumes
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:08 am 
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Great info, but you take terrible pictures. :-P

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87t1
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:45 am 
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Gasoline Fumes wrote:
Great info, but you take terrible pictures. :-P







:rollin:

you should see the pics taken with my CHEAP camera. :wink:
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metro freak
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:20 pm 
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Maybe we can take up a collection for a decent digital camera since 87t1 IS taking the time to take pics of all these issues that are constantly talked about on here.

It does some people (me) some good to actually see what is being talked about and not having to IMAGINE (or pretend) I know what is being said.

Thanks, 87t1
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turbo2475
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:01 pm 
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Hey 87t1, what is a dike? I just received my new gasket and need to do this before I install it. I do have access to a Dremel with various attachments if I need it.

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fordem
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:14 pm 
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turbo2475 wrote:
Hey 87t1, what is a dike? I just received my new gasket and need to do this before I install it. I do have access to a Dremel with various attachments if I need it.


Dikes - in this case slang for diagonal cutters - pliers used to clip wire.
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turbo2475
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Thanks fordem! :D I was kind of afraid of the other answers I could have got for the word dike! :wink: :lol: I think I have a set of those so I will try to do it later on tonight if I can.

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Tommy69z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:50 pm 
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Is this a repair that can be don without removing the head? :x

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Knuckles
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:11 pm 
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Tommy69z wrote:
Is this a repair that can be don without removing the head? :x


No it can't be done, as it is the head gasket that needs to be modified.

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Tommy69z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:08 pm 
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I guess I will look at it, but I would think you could drive a punch down the drain hole and open it up; has this not been tried before? I will try this before I pull the head. Wish I had found this site before the rebuild!

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87t1
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:45 pm 
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DO NOT DRIVE A PUNCH IN THE MOTOR

Please look at the pictures of the modified drain holes--

The holes do not line up, they are stepped like a fish ladder.

Image

Before you do anything, check your PCV valve.

Is there any oil in the air cleaner?
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t3 ragtop
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:20 pm 
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you beat me to that one 87. :shock:

that idea about using a punch is wrong on so many levels. :roll:

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87t1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:37 pm 
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I have just looked, he may hit water. :shock:
The area on the block where the punch will hit is above the water pump
impeller cavity, the material is about 3/8 thick.

Well, hopefully he will not do it. :roll:
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Tommy69z
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:47 pm 
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Don't worry, I seen what you were talking about being offset; not like the SB chevys that are straight thru. I replaced the pcv valve, but seemed fine. The air filter did have some oil on it. It sat for a day and I did not drive it, and when I did get in it to go, I think the lifters lost there prime, it acted like it had no compression, missed terrible for a 1/4 mile then cleared up! :?

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87t1
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:40 pm 
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On my car, the valve cover filled with oil and blew the cam seal out. :shock:
When driving at night, when the oil was being forced into the engine intake,
the car would sputter and the cars lights behind would dissappear.
It must have looked like a crop duster got lost... :lol:

When you change the head gasket, make sure the check valve is installed in the block.
ps-I have an extra check valve, if you need one. :)

good luck with the car :)
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_Scratch_
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:53 pm 
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Anyone ever thought about "porting" the oil drain passages? :? I find that’s what I’ve been slowly doing to my g10 turbo engine. I started out by just removing a few casting defects, but that only got the ball rolling. Now the entire block is clean of almost all defects and casting lines… and I’m now considering doing some mild "port matching" to solve that restricting "fish ladder" effect...
I will also eventually be running a copper gasket, which I’ll assume I am going to have to mod to suit. has any body had any issues with altering these? Would it be worth it?
What do you guys figure? :|

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turbo2475
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:22 am 
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If you can get ahold of him Adam at OCC has some copper head gaskets available, or he did the last time I talked to him. I should really call him soon to see how he is doing. If/when I do I'll ask him.

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87t1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:27 am 
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_Scratch_ wrote:
Anyone ever thought about "porting" the oil drain passages? :? I find that’s what I’ve been slowly doing to my g10 turbo engine. I started out by just removing a few casting defects, but that only got the ball rolling. Now the entire block is clean of almost all defects and casting lines… and I’m now considering doing some mild "port matching" to solve that restricting "fish ladder" effect...
I will also eventually be running a copper gasket, which I’ll assume I am going to have to mod to suit. has any body had any issues with altering these? Would it be worth it?
What do you guys figure? :|


By enlarging the oil return hole in the G10 head gasket (as shown above) any restriction is removed.
This was done to prevent a buildup of oil in the head caused by cam bearing/lifter bore wear (or bad gasket design).
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r0yal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:53 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Thank you for making this thread, altho.. it is VERY VERY hard to understand from your blurry pictures haha, I'm in the process of rebuilding my engine, so I'll throw some pictures up, so its easier for other people to understand for future rebuilds.


Attachments:
File comment: Here is a shot of the bottom of the head, from the left hand side.. *where the cam gear is, as you can see* I indicated the picture as much as possible so that you could clearly understand
head.jpg
head.jpg [ 150.21 KIB | Viewed 2627 times ]
File comment: Here is a shot of the head gasket, a top view the red arrow shows the hole that needs to be cut
gasket.jpg
gasket.jpg [ 50.05 KIB | Viewed 2603 times ]
File comment: This is a shot of the drain hole on the head. *without the headgasket* so you basically want to cut your headgasket to this size. its the only part on the bottom of the head that looks like that, you'll see it.
head2.jpg
head2.jpg [ 84.82 KIB | Viewed 2590 times ]
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94 XFI
 Post subject: OIL DRAIN BACK HOLE
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:41 pm 
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THANKS FOR THE INFO. I OPENED UP THE HEAD GASKET DRAIN BACK HOLE ON MY 94 GEO METRO AND LIKE MAGIC NO MORE SMOKING OR OIL IN THE AIR CLEANER.

THANKS AGAIN.

94 XFI.
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autobahnen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:15 pm 
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Where does the check valve fit into here?

I can't find one in mine.

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87t1
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:14 pm 
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autobahnen wrote:
Where does the check valve fit into here?

I can't find one in mine.


The oil check valve fits in a recess in the block deck surface, (marked with a yellow circle)
If yours has been lost, the suzuki/geo metro dealer can order you another one.

Image
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autobahnen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:09 am 
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Mine has a little thing in there with a slot in it. I tried to unscrew it, but it just spins. I guess that's my valve and I am cool then.

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87t1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:57 am 
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autobahnen wrote:
Mine has a little thing in there with a slot in it. I tried to unscrew it, but it just spins. I guess that's my valve and I am cool then.


Yep, thats it. Remove it for safekeeping, it will fall out of the recess if you tip the block
and you will never find it :shock:
You can remove it using a small pair of needle nose pliers, or a screwstarter.
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jaguar,vettes&sprints
 Post subject: Ok
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Thanks Phil N Ed for putting a bug in my ear and you honning and ring replacing short cut to hasting ring how to web site to refresh my gray matter

Phil n Ed wrote:
Fixing that exhaust valve will stop your previous engine smoking.
Make sure your PCV valve is clean clean clean or just change it out - less than $10.
They suck air from the crankcase back into the combustion chamber and reburn oil and other stuff. If that valve is stuck, or slightly clogged, your new valve job will smoke and you won't be happy with it. Plus, it will build up pressure in the crankcase and blow your front and rear main seals.
Texas Bird did like you did - rebuilt an engine, forgot a restrictor valve
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0
and had lots of problems with his smoking - new rings and all.
Ask him if he ever got it fixed. That's what you get for messing with the PCV valve.
All that "smog sh!t" has a reason, and sometimes it's not so bad...
Make sure you install your rings right, but I don't need to tell you that:
These guys know rings:
http://www.hastingsmfg.com/techtips.htm
And don't miss this one:
http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/ ... lazing.htm
Which means you hone for 30 to 45 seconds...
AND THAT's IT!
Just enough to break up the glaze, not rebore the cylinders.

Those guys used to have a web page on how to stagger the ring gaps, but I don't see it anymore. Guess you have to buy their rings to get an instruction page.



And props to
Don [87t1] for his write up on opening the oil return on headgaskets on the G10
.
.
----JV&S---
.
.

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t3 ragtop wrote:
the 3 banger isn't at all a "grenade." it's a tough little son of a bitch doing a big job. respect it.
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