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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
Hello, just wanted to share some pics of my current 97 metro 1.3 8v build. I am building the car around a GM/eaton m90. I will be drawing through a holley 2300 350cfm 2bbl, with some mods( boost ref pv, milled choke horn ect...) The motor is a .040 over cast crank deal, with some dished cast pistons, balance/ blueprinted, prepped rods, some pocket porting/gasket match, ect..i plan on a e85 tune for track days as this car will serve as a proautosports club/ time attack event -style car. The intake manifold will be a fabricated open plenum-to radiused port entry-type design as runner length is real tightly dictated by the firewall.

I tend to hang out on the north american suzuki samurai forums alot, and have a lot of force inducted/ nitrous builds under my belt at this point. My last 8v 1.3 had 11lbs with a m62 and lpg set up on 16* timing. probably well over a hundred hp. I am shooting for a cool 130hp, which i think is perfectly reasonable.
here are some links to my builds on the zuwharrie bbs for further reading on the topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y14q30R8QZs

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic, ... msg1084795

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic, ... msg1082751

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic, ... msg1012584

count on seeing me alot around here. let the pic whoreing begin.... these are of my m62 1.3


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Location: walsh,alberta,canada
on propane? that kicks ass!!!!!!!!!lpg is so much more versitile than gas,can cook food or go 125 mph!!!had a 400+ci ford on lpg,tons of mods,great on highway,better 4 pulling,people would laugh,until i kicked there ass-ever thought of using lpg to cool a intercooler before it hits the mixer?i had plans 4 my truck,twin turbos&lpg cooled intercooler,thought of same setup for my 91 t-fly,maybe direct injection after intercooler?maybe before?running gas &propane can cause severe tuning issues-i have run into that on many v-8~v6 straight 6-4cyl engine combos.nitrous and propane?increase oxygen,and increase octane,maybe compression~with 8~12 lbs boost~fast and friendly to the enviroment,for a fuel that was once burnt off,just a mere garbage by-product of oil refinery-AWESOME PICS!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

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92 metro aka ''blue lump of coal''
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
excellent, i have an m62 but i thought it was way too big for the g13b

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Location: Saint-Jérôme, Qc
which one is it on the GM 3.8s? I have a friend who put one on a twincam (came out of a late '90s GTP), it has some electrical stuff that needs to be issued, and it needs a hood, because the blower sits too high for the stock hood :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
thanks...the m62 is perfect for a 1.3 app. instant boost really helps the torque deficiancy.

I have owned 1.6 8v and been in many 1.6 16v zuks....and the blown 1.3 will take their lunch and eat it. no comparison in power spread.

the gm eatons most commonly came in 62s and 90s. I should have the manifold done by the weekend given the UPS truck arrives today...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:31 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
i was thinking of mounting mine the same way..
what did you do for a throttle body?

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02 Aerio 2.3 swap Wife's car


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
did some head porting today..

intake side was pretty straightforward as i enlarged the bowl area behind the valve concentric/proportional to 70-80% valve diam. I also smoothed the shortside radius, and knocked down the guide boss in the runner. Port entry was gasket matched also and blended into the runner.

Exhaust side was pretty much the same story as the port is squashed down a ton- as cast just- under the valve. I have seen multiple 1.3 cutaway heads and there is roughly 1/4inch of material in the port wall...
so I removed much material sticking to the same rule of thumb as above reguarding runner size. I also removed the worthless hump in the port roof and slightly raised the roof and blended the guide boss also. Exhaust port was also gasket matched.

The chamber was modified by unshrouding the cast lip around the valve seat area and blending it into the chamber roof.

i am a believer in leaving valve guides alone when porting, as higher egt and combustion pressures/ temps require extra guide meat to stabilize valve over the long run.

Head is now to be bead blasted and surfaced..all in all, i'm quite happy. the ports look fast and of course pics never do porting justice. Ive been around meny high end domestic v8 aftermarket heads and these ported 1.3 8valver heads are a good peice. I'd bet they compare favorably to a gti head on the higher end of valve lift..at least close to.

enjoy some 8v pics.....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
fired up the plasma and busted out a couple flanges..too late to finish grind everything all pretty..neighbors hate me already. This should give everyone the basic idea...more tommorrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Interesting. Nice to see something a little different being built.

Don't know if you have a belt sand table or if you know somebody that does, but after welding it sure cleans up and flattens flanges nice. Plus you don't have to pay somebody to mill them clean. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
my plasma keeps alot of the warping down, but welding is another story. i happen to have a large I beam fixture i bolt the flange to before final welding..a jig sortaspeak..works well. no real surfacing needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:41 pm 
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well, i wasn't very happy with the plenum, so it got whacked and i started over. its solid now, and will go into the car for test fitting tommorrow. Given all that goes well, i will wrap up the manifold by the weekend...then the block is off to the machine shop to get poked.


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manifold 009 (Small).jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:42 pm 
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I tossed the entire deal into the bay to see how tight things were..aside for the carb mounting, and the a/c hard line relocation needed (bent out of the way), everything looks real good. Everything fits well. I also wrapped the manifold up tonight..i have a bit more cleanup work to do on it with a carbide bit. Im a happy camper so far. I do have a couple things id change next time to speed up the build time...i used some 3" tube to provide a smooth radius into the plenum from the wider portion of the dischage port..


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
i started to think about the open plenum to port entry, and have mostly concluded that it is a solid design. When cylinder heads are flowed on a flow bench, they are often tested with nothing more than some modeling clay built up around the port to provide a smooth radius for air entry. Adding a runner to this situation would not increase flow beyond what the port can do on its own(size wise). So basically heads are max flowed with no runer at all.

As far as sonic wave tuning is concerned, it is of little importance in my opinion, once a engine sees supra atmospheric conditions. the point of sonic tuning is to provide a stack of air in a column ( boost) to the engine on the next intake valve event. at 10 lbs boost, i dont see how any addititional charge can be "stacked" in a air column(port)... with eatons, boost is realatively instant, and can ramp up as fast as the diaph. can close the bypass valve.

my last manifold setup worked well, but i feel this thing should really run..i am going to spend some time inside the plenum tonight streamlining the passages that are the port entry..block is destined for machine work this friday..cant wait to drive this thing :)

I also feel it would be really ez to add some injector bungs above or below the port in a sort of standoff injector setup. my next will be made of aluminum for sure although the entire manifold only weighs 5lbs or so now


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Location: Saskatchewan
an m90??

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:40 pm 
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yes sir. m90.
everyone thought a 62 was too big...hardly....i drove the crap out of my m62 1.3, including some tuning pulls at 36+ degrees timing(detonation city)! The damn motor loved the blower. it just wouldnt die. I've posted the math and compressor map over on the zuwharrie bbs post i have going on over there. i am at a pretty good spot on the island.. a bit to the left but still in a high efficiancy range at realistic rpms. The bypass valve should keep me out of surge trouble. we shall see. i imagine at this point, im the only m90 zuk 1.3 in the world. it is very much like going from a 1.3 8v to a 22re toyota in power spread difference. definately worth the hassle over a comparable turbo setup(for me anyway). waitng for boost (torque) or having to abuse a clutch to get a turbo to spool is for the birds. been there done that. Its hard to beat roots boost from stoplight to stoplight..and this coming from a turbo diehard..stay tuned 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:36 pm 
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well, the block and head were dumped off at a nice lil hole in the wall machine shop run by a charachter of a semi retired oldtimer..nice equipment(old). 3 angle vj, block and head surfacing, hot tank, crank grind/polish, hang pistons on the rods, and a bore/hone...040". Im positive it'll come back lookin tits..awsome prices too...assembly and pics to come. I also finished the porting up with some sand rolls last night..looksa bunch better...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:21 am 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
well here is what my exhaust will be built around...i had a twobros on my sami and it sounded good. quiet. i dont like the fart can honda sound.


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!Bk2LfbgB2k~$(KGrHqEOKkMEtjhuEqNhBLZQiBF(,Q~~_12.jpg
!Bk2LfbgB2k~$(KGrHqEOKkMEtjhuEqNhBLZQiBF(,Q~~_12.jpg [ 29.62 KIB | Viewed 13533 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:08 pm 
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managed to service the eaton. the donor car must have had a faulty pvc or intake valve because the rotors were caked and in dire need of decarbonizing...all is good now. case and tips have normal wear and tear but otherwise good for another 100k :)


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m90 002 (Medium).jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:16 pm 
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figured id post up some pics of the inside after much porting. I definately know what to do different next time around. I have a good feeling this thing should flow like gangbusters...crappy pics dont really show things well. still waiting on my machinest. Im not gonna rush him, but damn im anxious..


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finished manifold 001 (Small).jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Today after noticing the 97 rocker arm problem mine has experianced, I have decided to go with a good used 1.6 8v cam for a bit more duration and lift as well as the sami 1.3 rocker gear as it is bullit proof..also picked up a mechanical distributor today and have posted the plans for it's modification for boost in anotherthread in this section.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Considering all the work you're doing, you should put a real cam in there. In fact, it should have been the first thing you did.
The 1.6 cam (how will you run the distributor?) will give you a little more lift, and duration, but will still be a significant restriction.
When you ported the head, did you remove the 'swirl' from the pocket?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:17 pm 
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so what is all conected to this supercharger? i have a M90 gen 3 and im not sure where to hook up the PCV line and some of the sensors, my car is a 2000 chevy metro lsi 1.3L


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:11 pm 
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suprf1y wrote:
Considering all the work you're doing, you should put a real cam in there. In fact, it should have been the first thing you did.
The 1.6 cam (how will you run the distributor?) will give you a little more lift, and duration, but will still be a significant restriction.
When you ported the head, did you remove the 'swirl' from the pocket?


I was waiting for you to chime in. i have not compared cam/ distrib drives side by side..so you are probably right there..no biggie, i havent got a cam yet. One of your grinds was in the plans down the road, but i feel is honestly uneeded( but desired :ez_pimp: ). I am a skin flint. My last blown zuk had no real need for any more cam as the mixer was the limiting factor. I have realistic power goals with realistic rpm's with this one as well. I am curious to what you would recommend from your available inventory based on the info provided? 7000 will probably be my rev ceiling.

As far as swirl goes, if you are refereing to the brass air inducer tubes in the port, those things arent worth a shit. Especially when filled with carbon. (You are talking to a life long mopar die hard. Swirl is somthing chrysler engineers coined) The path of the port was unaltered from original. Only ares of significant pumping loss were altered. The supposed "swirl" will still be there as the head has a almost canted valve arrangement thus entry and exit from the chamber would undoubtedly result in a mixture swirl effect.

Id like to think of my eaton as one giant air fuel mix turbulator, and the plenum will be full of finely atomized charge waitng its turn into the chamber. I believe swirl will be a non issue, and is more for the emissions guy and his exhuast gas analyner in a naturally aspirated car. You cant tell me swirl is high with these long duration cams and their brop brop sportbike idleing..


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:39 pm 
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brandan787 wrote:
so what is all conected to this supercharger? i have a M90 gen 3 and im not sure where to hook up the PCV line and some of the sensors, my car is a 2000 chevy metro lsi 1.3L



im not running a pcv. just a breather catch can. i use rotella oil and change it often. manifold vac is best. you may have to use a check valve for map sensors and whatnot. The blower will always see vaccume even under wot if the signal is taken between the underside of the throttle blade, and the rotors.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:51 pm 
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The seat is kind of set off to one side of the pocket, and the shape of the pocket/port on the long side induces a swirl.
It works, and it flows really well. Far better with it, than without it. The stock cam has absolutely no place in a turbo, or s/c motor. You may as well run restrictor plates, because that's what you're doing.
Run less boost (heat), and make more power. It's a win, win situation. The cam should be the FIRST thing to go.
My 226/395 cam would be a good choice.

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