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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Location: Finland
I thought to make exhaust manifold myself. Do any have pics of self made manifolds, it helps little bit. And some dimensions...
1.0 3cyl engine. -86

and i have read about milling a cylinderhead. How much? is that .40 good, how much is compression then?

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suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:13 pm 
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at 40 thousandths, compression might come up a couple of psi but if you have to re-surface the head again, you'd be closer to the max fly-cut. don't forget to measure your head bolts for length after you mill the head that much.

go up to the top of the page and click on the "gallery" button. there are a bazillion pictures to look through and some of them are nicely done mods. you can also use that button with the magnifier next to "search" to query the server.

turbine tech used to have header flanges and collectors for sale for the g10. that would make it easier for you to build your own manifold.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:44 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
at 40 thousandths, compression might come up a couple of psi but if you have to re-surface the head again, you'd be closer to the max fly-cut. don't forget to measure your head bolts for length after you mill the head that much.

go up to the top of the page and click on the "gallery" button. there are a bazillion pictures to look through and some of them are nicely done mods. you can also use that button with the magnifier next to "search" to query the server.

turbine tech used to have header flanges and collectors for sale for the g10. that would make it easier for you to build your own manifold.


You need to make it simpler for him, he's from Finland.

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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:55 am 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
t3 ragtop wrote:
at 40 thousandths, compression might come up a couple of psi but if you have to re-surface the head again, you'd be closer to the max fly-cut. don't forget to measure your head bolts for length after you mill the head that much.

go up to the top of the page and click on the "gallery" button. there are a bazillion pictures to look through and some of them are nicely done mods. you can also use that button with the magnifier next to "search" to query the server.

turbine tech used to have header flanges and collectors for sale for the g10. that would make it easier for you to build your own manifold.


You need to make it simpler for him, he's from Finland.


I understand it.

And i have use that search button many many times before i registered.
That manifold. I dont wanna buy it, i wanna make it myself(practice) For my other car(Fiat 127).

i am going to swap that fiat's engine. 903cc->1581cc turbo. And i need to make manifold for turbo.
i need to make everything again(mounts, electricity, suspension etc)

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suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:27 am 
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At .040" (1 mm) expect to pick up about .5-1 compression.
You can take much more off that head, if you are looking for more, but above about 2 mm, you start to have timing belt tension problems.

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:28 am 
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Location: Finland
yeah. where i can get shorter timing belt?

And there is that Advanced Timing sprockets. Do that help re-surface broblem?
3tech/

I think this project is too "expensive", because that SA310 what i bought cost 50€ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: so what.

How much that timing sprocket will cost if shipped to finland?

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:31 am 
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Posts: 63
Location: Finland
I can't calculate that manifold, because i don't know what is bbdc degrees. Anyone know that???

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suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:41 am 
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hears my manifold

Image
Image

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The other 5% are good 'ol Alberta boys saying "Hear, hold my beer... NOW WATCH THIS!!!".
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:38 am 
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Location: Finland
thanks. Working great?. What is that pipes dimensions, is 1 1/4" OK?

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:46 am 
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i went with 1.5" mandrel bent "u" tubes, however i think the true perimiter if the exhaust port equals out to a 1.25" (when made round) or just over. remember, you want to make sure you either want to perfectly match the port size, or go a little over. otherwise youre impeeding the exhaust pulse before it even has a chance to work for your benifit.

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95% of the canadian population say "Oh shit!" before hitting the ditch.
The other 5% are good 'ol Alberta boys saying "Hear, hold my beer... NOW WATCH THIS!!!".
;) :lol:

May not always be pretty, but Rednecks Git'R'Done Good!


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:30 am 
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Location: Finland
OK. I take sylinderhead of and port and polish it litle bit. Same time i can check that tube diameter.

Do you feel any difference with normal manifold and selfmade one? torgue, power.

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:34 pm 
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hell ya there's differance. way more torque and better throttle response. read my thread on g10 port matching. if you feel you have the ability you should also port your intake manifold. the easier it is for your engine to breath, the better.

_________________
95% of the canadian population say "Oh shit!" before hitting the ditch.
The other 5% are good 'ol Alberta boys saying "Hear, hold my beer... NOW WATCH THIS!!!".
;) :lol:

May not always be pretty, but Rednecks Git'R'Done Good!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:37 am 
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scratch, in theory you would want to leave a small step from the exhaust port to the manifold runners. that reduces boundary effect at the pipe wall and serves as an anti-reversion aid (the propensity for spent exhaust gases to be drawn back into the port just before the exhaust valve closes, reducing fresh charge volume in the cylinder.) the step allows the exhaust gas to expand into the exhaust runners which slows the gas down a little allowing it to cool slightly.

a bunch of header manufacturers will include anti-reversion cones in their runner tube designs. the g10 design guys just relied on a step from the port to the cast holes on the exhaust manifold to get the job done.

port matching on the intake side is logical but port matching on the exhaust side doesn't always pan out.

not to invoke an argument, just pointing out the engineering.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:25 am 
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Location: Finland
could that fit to swift?

http://www.cs-service.fi/index.php/laipat2?cid=30

Any pics(CAD) swift exhaust flange? with dimensions?.That would be great. Or can i make flange using exhaustmanifold gasket?. :?

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:45 pm 
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SA310 wrote:
Or can i make flange using exhaustmanifold gasket?. :?

that's what I did. you only need the bold holes and the ports. the rest can be just a plain rectangular flange.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:22 am 
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Location: Finland
8,10 or 12mm Flange?

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suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:19 am
Posts: 63
Location: Finland
original timing belt has 89 teeth. And i have found 88 teeth belt(daihatsu, suzuki toyota), is it short enought if i mill 1.5mm away from cylinderhead?.

And i have some scratches on cylinder block, so it leaks oil. And i don't want to take of it(too much work, and too expensive).
What can i do for it?

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Posts: 63
Location: Finland
http://www.google.fi/imgres?imgurl=http ... s%3Disch:1



I found this. could that fit to earlier models?

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Posts: 336
Location: Victoria BC
Nice set of pipes,
Question for 3t, are there photos of the "step" or anti reverse cones you mentioned? I'm not sure what it is or looks like.

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94 GEO, 91 FIREFLY VERT, 91 FIREFLY 4DR, AN A TRAILER FULL OF SPARE PARTS
ALSO PART OF MY STABLE, NOT CARS BUT I DRIVE THEM WHEN I CAN:
91 STRAT, 80S CHARVEL SANDIMAS, 57 TELE(Hienze), 97 GIBSON SG, 2O11 IBANEZ GIO,
IBAN ARTCORE SEMIHOLLOW, N TUBE AMPS ETC

*** I LEARNED EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW WATCHING SOUTHPARK ***
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:28 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
SA310 wrote:
http://www.google.fi/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/images/HU332STM.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/product_info.php%3Fmanufacturers_id%3D29%26products_id%3D3528%26osCsid%3D504086f9a2f6ac15ab3338d4473669a4&usg=__G6LOmdQuV76MIy4bfeD0JbgfBP4=&h=324&w=300&sz=33&hl=fi&start=1&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=nounXKwW7ON4IM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsuzuki%2Bswift%2BSA310%2Bengine%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfi%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1



I found this. could that fit to earlier models?


No.
Here's why.
Look at sample exhaust manifold gaskets.
Image
The later one has hydraulic lifters and is on the bottom.
Now, let's put one on top of the other.
Image
The early model gasket is now on top.
Only TWO of the mounting holes line up.

The picture from the link you posted
Image
is similar to the later model head.
It is NOT a simple bolt on or 'plug and play' situation.
Do you understand?

Because of where you live, maybe you don't realize that you can post pictures.
Did you see how easily I posted the picture of your blue header?
Isn't that easier for everyone?
Post some pictures of your '86 engine and show us what you are trying to do.

Many here can help help you!

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Location: Finland
I understand it. I can post pics, but that was faster way to do it.

Main problem is that, 90% parts are 89-up. So i am thinking if some parts may fit earlier model, with little modification.
In finland we don't have parts to this car. But 07-up you find allmoust everything you want.

I have few pics my album. And i am going to put more pics.

Back to that manifold guestion. I have parts to manifold(pipes, collector, etc). I just have to put them together, that all. But it is simplier to buy it.
And those carb guestions. I am going to try that DCOE carb and also those bike carbs. But one at the time. When i have tried, i post some results if you want.

Place where i am studying(welding 8) ), there is CNC machine also. So i can fabrigate some underdrive pulleys, if i want.
And some intake/exhaust manifolds. Now i doing strut brace.

Do you understand me now :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am sorry if i ask too much :roll:

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
SA310 wrote:
I understand it. I can post pics, but that was faster way to do it.

Main problem is that, 90% parts are 89-up. So i am thinking if some parts may fit earlier model, with little modification.
In finland we don't have parts to this car. But 07-up you find allmoust everything you want.

I have few pics my album. And i am going to put more pics.

Back to that manifold guestion. I have parts to manifold(pipes, collector, etc). I just have to put them together, that all. But it is simplier to buy it.
And those carb guestions. I am going to try that DCOE carb and also those bike carbs. But one at the time. When i have tried, i post some results if you want.

Place where i am studying(welding 8) ), there is CNC machine also. So i can fabrigate some underdrive pulleys, if i want.
And some intake/exhaust manifolds. Now i doing strut brace.

Do you understand me now :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am sorry if i ask too much :roll:

I stand corrected. You do know how to post pictures to your album.
Very good.
Now, you need to learn how to put a picture into a thread.
Do you understand me?

Let me show you again.

Here is your engine compartment:
Image
This is my engine compartment:
Image
Now it is easy to see that your car has no altitude sensor or EGR modulator, but it does seem to have the passage through the head. There is no need for you to click on a 'link' to get the photo. It is right before your eyes, eh?
Also, your car has no A/C (no need in Finland) and no automatic transmission. Can you see the automatic transmission in the lower photo? How about the altitude sensor? It's probable that you have an Aisin carburetor, not a Hitachi. Can you guess why I said that? (Hint: no altitude or engine compartment sensors)...and do you see the differences in brakes? Very easy to do when you POST the pictures one on top of the other!

Later, if you want to be clever, you can add video:
Image
which will be helpful if you have problems with your assembly and the car doesn't run right.

It may be easier for you Imageto post a link to a picture, but if you want help, you need to learn to do part of the work yourself. People who want to help you Imagewith parts will be more willing if you prove you are not being lazy and show them exactly what you are asking.

You've got 50 posts in the last 6 months and you still haven't learned to post a picture in your thread. Now is the time.
Study this
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4
and it will teach you.
Then, you will be on even ground with those who are trying to help you.
(And, by the way, you're welcome for answering the question of whether that blue header would work or not!)
You may be learning fabrication and may be a much better mechanic than I ever hope to become, but right now, kindly learn to post pictures so we don't have to go back and forth, looking to see exactly what you mean.
I look forward to learning from you 8) 8) 8) ...Oh yes:

I am sorry if I am asking too much. :) :) :)

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:30 pm 
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3cylburner wrote:
Nice set of pipes,
Question for 3t, are there photos of the "step" or anti reverse cones you mentioned? I'm not sure what it is or looks like.


on the factory cast exhaust manifolds, the rectangular holes on the manifold are a bit bigger than the rectangular ports in the head.

think of the exhaust gas as a pressure pulse or wave. as it travels down a tube it will strike a wall at a bend in the tube or at a joint in the pipe. the obstruction will produce an echo or reflection at that point and send some part of the initial pressure pulse backwards and up the pipe towards the head. that pulse will tend to travel up the wall of the tube where the forward pulse is most disturbed by the eddy effect of the gas dragging along the inside diameter of the tube.

that is the basis of reversion.

if the exhaust port at the head is inherently smaller than the tube of the manifold, there is a slight step. it's right at the inside diameter of the tube and it causes the reverse pressure pulse to be reflected a second time, changing it's direction so that is again traveling with gas in right direction to exit the exhaust instead of traveling back up into the head's exhaust port and wreaking havoc with the gas trying get by the valve.

some of the more sophisticated tuned motorcycle pipes have a weldment shaped like a cone just inside the end that bolts up to the head. those use an angular deflection of the echo to create anti-reversion. you also see them use the cones at the business end of the pipe to keep pipe end reflections to a minimum.

hot exhaust gas is most energetic where it is exiting the head. at that point it tries it's best to keep moving. as it travels down the pipe, friction at the boundary point at the pipe wall causes the velocity to drag down while the gas at the center of the pipe is affected by every molecule of gas it's rubbing against as you get closer to the pipe wall. a small step from the port to the pipe wall is hardly detrimental to flow while that damnable return pulse can really jack up performance.

to qualify my statement, that's generally advice for a normally aspirated engine. boosted engines are a bit different function.

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Posts: 336
Location: Victoria BC
T3, Thanks for the detailed explianation.

Good to know, otherwise I may have port matched the exhaust side as well.
If I ever get to my other engine build, that is...

_________________
94 GEO, 91 FIREFLY VERT, 91 FIREFLY 4DR, AN A TRAILER FULL OF SPARE PARTS
ALSO PART OF MY STABLE, NOT CARS BUT I DRIVE THEM WHEN I CAN:
91 STRAT, 80S CHARVEL SANDIMAS, 57 TELE(Hienze), 97 GIBSON SG, 2O11 IBANEZ GIO,
IBAN ARTCORE SEMIHOLLOW, N TUBE AMPS ETC

*** I LEARNED EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW WATCHING SOUTHPARK ***
Too drunk to be held resposable


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:38 am 
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Posts: 63
Location: Finland
Ok let's try

Image

It works. 8)

_________________
suzuki SA310/swift -86
Small but POWERFUL
0.050" milled head
littlebit ported head
basic valve mods
cold air intake
selfmade exh.manifold
1 7/8" exhaust
cat removed
Better ignition coil
8mm silicone ignition wires


Top
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