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 Post subject: G10 Engine Swap Advice
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Hello all, this is my first post, and I have been searching the boards and doing lots of research over the last 2 weeks. This is going to be kind of a long winded post but basically I want help picking the best G10 swap for my conversion. I am going into business with another partner in building a frame kit to be able to put G10 engines in classic Mini's. What we want to offer is basically a bolt in kit to be able to drop in the G10, and another kit to add a custom Turbo Setup. I did look into the Chevy Sprint's as a base, but I think it would be best to start NA and make sure that fits, then add the Turbo onto that to offer two packages. We will be using a Megasquirt setup, building a custom manifold for the turbo to be able to place it better in the Mini. Most likely we will be making a custom intake with throttle body and separate injectors. This conversion all came about because of price, reliability, fuel economy, size, and weight. G10 weighs in 100lbs less than any Mini motor, and the stock Sprint Motor makes more than the Mini's 1275 engine (64hp) stock. Anyway, so that's what I want out of it, my questions since this will be turbo'd in the future with light boost what year motors should I be looking for, or does it really matter if we are going to be making our own intake's as well? Should I just pick up a TBI motor, what were 92+ Geo's?

Also this is not my first swap, I am wrapping up my 1982 Mini that now has a 2000 Acura Integra GSR Conversion. While 180+Hp in a car that weighs 1300lbs is great, it's an expensive conversion, gearing is not right (outta the box), extended front 4" with flip front, etc etc.

I will be designing the kit as far as what I want it to achieve/be, but the real dirty technical stuff is over my head at this point, but the other partner owns a custom Turbo shop that specializes in stand alone engine management, engine swaps, tuning, etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Oh, and I know people like pictures. So here's mine that I am almost done with. Can't wait to get the Suzuki swap started.

Image

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Last edited by meetthespeakers on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:48 pm 
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the later g10 engines (96-00+) used a 6 point trigger wheel on the crank with an oem vr sensor. it seems to me that would make a good choice for a mega squirt controlled 3 banger as at least that part of the engineering is done already.

i think that the rated hp on a normally aspirated g10 is more like 56 hp but turbocharging them wakes them up nicely. also, since it's an aluminum alloy block and head, it's very light as well as compact.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:51 pm 
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I run one of those late OBDIII motors w/ crank sensor. It's a specific oil pump with the sensor hole cast in, and a dedicated oil pan with the "big dent" and the big hole for the sensor to bolt to. Then there's the crank gear with the 6 points cast into a 1 piece gear that's wider than the earlier crank sprockets. Wider belt, wider timing cover. Matching cam sprocket up top. The belt teeth have to match the profile, round on the lates, square on the earlies. Everything bolts right up to an early block. The block bottom end gasket set is called a "conversion set" and is the only way to get to the good specific oil pump gaskets for late oil pumps. Which are different than the oil pump gaskets for early oil pumps. Do not mix. Beck Arnley has a cheap paper single late pump gasket, sometimes it's all you can get your hands on.
Readily available in the local Cali junkyards for all the OBDII hard parts. Pans available brand new, only way to go. I'm in the process of converting mine (normally aspirated) to MSII right now. Still learning the gotchas of MS vs. the little Zuki that could.

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95 Metro hatch "Tequila lime" now demonically possessed by Lil Evil.
93 Metro wagon teenage schoolbus
90 Metro hatch "fugly duckling" next up for freeway suicide duty
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Looking for another 95 to drag home...
92 Tracker 2 dr rwd stock
93 Sidekick 4 dr 1.9 vw TD, WVO conversion, 6" lift over 33's


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Thanks guys for the input. I will be on the hunt over the next few months. There doesn't seem to be a lot on the market right now. I was thinking of getting a donor car cause I thought that would be easier to start with, but I guess everyone is using them as there commuter/winter DD.

Here is how I am hoping it will fit. Granted not a Suzuki 3 cyl, but similar idea, this was done in Australia. Guy did a clean job.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Another lust worthy engine that never made it stateside. I'd run one if it arrived in a crate.

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95 Metro hatch "Tequila lime" now demonically possessed by Lil Evil.
93 Metro wagon teenage schoolbus
90 Metro hatch "fugly duckling" next up for freeway suicide duty
89 'GT3' chassis in the house
Looking for another 95 to drag home...
92 Tracker 2 dr rwd stock
93 Sidekick 4 dr 1.9 vw TD, WVO conversion, 6" lift over 33's


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:51 am 
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Hi,

Is it you Strudel?

NA G10 enigne doesn't come with injector holes in the cylinder head unlike G10T Multi point injections.
So I found out. I have spare engine which I want to turbo it with Vitara 8v pistons as well as Gti conrods.

I'm not sure std conrods will take kind to turbo charging to be honest.
I think if you can get hold of Gti gearbox(4.1:1), gearing might be wrong with 10" even with 13".
I think we will need to look into 3.75:1(don't remeber exact fig.) or something like that with Gti gear ratio might be nice.

I looked into 12v head as well if I could fit any of them for G10 engine. I have seen someone cut up G13B 16v head to fit on G10. I'm not sure if it is worth it.

I have been told you can get 180+Bhp from G10 and reliable.... If gearbox can take it!

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:22 am 
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here's a thread on a turbo adaptation of a g10 engine. it worked for the author.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18263

87t1 drilled the injector bores in a standard g10 head to mount the g10t multiport injection. the bosses are cast into all the 3 banger heads.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25103&p=193112&hilit=drilling+injector#p193112

i don't know that you'd be able to sustain 180 hp on the skinny connecting rods from a normally aspirated g10. the turbo3 engine used the gt rods and lower base compression pistons. i've seen some guys using gt rods and vitara pistons in turbo setups.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
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My YouTube Channel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Image

:D Very nice




What is the final drive ratio on the G10 gearbox?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Hi,

If gearbox ratios are same as mk1s.
G10 should have 4.388:1. If you can get G13A, they come with 3.789:1 ratio.

G10T came with 4.105:1 but most important detail is that engine weight.

G10 is only 68kg, G10T 78Kg, G13A is 76Kg and G13B is 90Kg!

I like G10 already!

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:17 pm 
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i run a 4.39 transmission on my turbo3 vert and like that gearing on twincams, too. it makes the car get up and move it off the line.

don't those old minis run 10" rims? i might be inclined to use the 3.79 gearing with the tiny wheels and tires. :wink: here in the usa, i think that there was a 3.52:1 option used on the xfi. that'd give that mini some long legs. :lol:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Not to worried about the gearing, worst case scenario I use my aftermarket 13x7's with 175/50 13 tires. If I can squeeze the 175/60 13 tires the gearing would be perfect. If it is my understanding of this:

Stock Tire - 145/80R12
Overall Diameter: 21.13 in
Actual Speed: 60 mph

Tire 1 - 175/50R13
Overall Diameter: 19.88 in
Speedometer1: 63.7 mph
Speedometer Difference: -5.89% too slow
Diameter Difference: 5.92%

Tire 2 - 175/60R13
Overall Diameter: 21.26 in
Speedometer1: 59.6 mph
Speedometer Difference: 0.613% too slow
Diameter Difference: 0.62%

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Hi,

Yes, there is economy car or shall I say a Van in JDM.
Yes, I have this setup for my Mini for 10" wheel.
I got this setup from Mad_for_Tar.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Miniswift, are you running a g10 engine, or the bigger 4 cyl? Am I wrong about the gearing, buddy of mine I bought my 998 off of just put in a stock g10 and did not change the gearing and says it works fine.

Also does the g10 engine have a cable driven speedo, or electric? Curious if it will be easy to run Autometer gauges for tach and speedo, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:20 am 
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Hi,

I have G13B with Group A camshafts with Suzuki Sports LSD for my setup.
As far as I know all of Swift came with a cable driven speedo and take off is next to the diff.

I think if you use bigger wheels likes of 13" setup, you still have 10% difference.
mk1s uses 165/65-13 and the common 13" Mini tyres are 175/50-13. This will give you 7.34% difference.

So 165/65-13 21.44", 175/50-13 19.89".

Tacho wise, all you need is to take elecrtic pulse from coil so should be ok to use after market ones.

If you are going ahead with Turbo to NA, let me know.
I have both inlet and exhaust flange CAD data in dxf file.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:24 am 
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That's even better, supposedly you can just fit the 175/60 13 on there just clearing the radius arm. That would only give it a Overall Diameter of 21.26 and a Speedometer Difference of 0.845% too fast. Is there anyone that makes an adapter to convert the speedo to electronic? Will have to look into it.

That would be great to get the files for the flanges. I really hope we can start this project mid to late Feb this year.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Hi,

I think old style clock made by CSi will be programable with your tyres.
I have one for my project. I will take photo of it if you would like.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:57 pm 
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cyberdyne, nordskogg, and dakota, all digital gauge manufacturers, have programmable mechanical to digital electronic converter boxes. you can set them up for any tire diameter you choose.

if it were my project, i'd be inclined to use the 3.79 or 3.52 gearbox and keep the 10" rims (mini lights :wink: ) to maintain the stock look and low end grunt. there might be some other issues, brakes, rotating mass, center of gravity, etc. along with fitment woes associated with the taller tires.

being an old guy, i'm pretty nostalgic over those original mini coopers. i drove and drove against those cars when i was a young guy. i liked the 1275 for it's low stance and whippy zippy handling. :D an engine/ power unit swap to newer and more reliable technology would definitely be in order and i'm also extremely fond of the g10 turbo3 engine. that swap seems like it would be a natural choice.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd. - 1992 White Suzuki Swift GT

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Hi,

I have Mini with 10" wheels and it come with 4 pot Vented discs.
My 998 was quicker than many 1275 as it was modified 998 Mini Cooper engine which produced just shy of 70Bhp.
Std 1275 is 64Bhp, but all of Mini come with 4 speed gearbox so you get headache after while.
These days, you can get Aluminium 4 pot calipers to fit in 10" wheels even 6 pots!

There are som people selling Titanium radius arm with disc break for the rear.

I agree with you. G10T will be excellent for Mini and it will come with 5 speed gearbox!

My wife's Ignis 1300cc does 43mpg (imperial), that's almost as good as my diesel Qashqai of 48mpg!
I think 5 speed gearbox does make a difference. My 998 made 35mpg in good days.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:14 pm 
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Never had 10" wheels on any of my Minis. For a few reasons, tire selection, brake choice, turning radius for certain engine swaps, and most importantly Looks! 10" wheels you are basically stuck with 7.5 cooper s discs, 13" you can use the Metro turbo vented 8.4's. On my Integra powered Mini I am running Wildwood 9.5 Discs with 4 piston calipers. Here is some of my older Minis that I have done.

Image
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Hi,

Those are nice.
I have 7.8" Metro vented discs which were reduced from 8.4".
A Mini with 10" wheels are much more comfortable to drive than any 13" Minis.
As you know, Minis don't come with suspension travel to speak of. As a result, you get born shaking ride but go around a corner like it is on a rail.

10" wheels will have tyre side wall as air suspension and ride quality will improve so much.
I'm keeping my Mini to be 10" for now but once I go to Sprint with it. I will try to run 13" or even 14" Factory option Swift Gti wheels.
This way, I can have big brakes and even rear disc brakes! I think this will be just for show, mind.

Cheers
Atchi


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:12 pm 
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NOTABMW :rollin:

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SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:52 am 
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UPDATE!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:54 am 
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Image

Image

That's what I'm working on now. I got the Motor pulled, frames built up, just need to fab the motor mounts. Will hopefully be dropping it in the next few weeks. Got way to many Mini's here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:57 am 
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I wanted to use a set of aftermarket gauges, my buddy was telling me I had to retain the stock cluster because it sends a pulse back to the ecu? That would be a bummer, I don't want to go to a mega squirt/stand alone engine management yet if I don't have to. I wanted to use something like this to streamline my dash:

Image

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