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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Posts: 141
Location: Salem OR
I'm on the side of the road at the moment north of Eugene Oregon a little, think my timing belt went as the engine dropped dead and the valve assembly on top wont turn with the cranking of the engine. I have a new belt to go on, am awaiting a couple tools to finish taking off the plastic cover on my 87 sprint.

As far as changing it out, it it as simple as aligning the notches and installing the belt? Any tips or tricks. I know someone said to use a rod to get the 1st pistol on the upper stroke. Any help appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Figures 3 and 5, baby...
http://www.teamswift.net/Lihtan/tech/Su ... _guide.pdf
and don't thank me, thank Lihtan.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
Its a 1lt engine.... anything different?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
Instead of dealing with removing the of the crank pulley, I just decided to tear out the plastic Timing Belt Cover, with it gone, putting the new belt on was easy, first attempt at timing, checking piston #1 at the top compression stroke didn't work, second attempt, saw that someone made a notch in the crank pulley so I pointed it up wards, the timing marker for the pistons down, put the belt on and it fired right up. My first timing belt change and it happened to be on the side of the road, was back on the road at about 3pm.

One little note, the engine seems a little more cold blooded, little harder to start in the mornings but not much and it also seems to have less power. The up side is that the engine on shut down is no longer trying to revive itself and shake apart the engine, its just a nice smooth shutdown. It is also idling smoother and runs smoother at higher RPM like with freeway travel.

I'm hoping that with the engine running smoother, the MPG will increase a bit, but I am wondering if I should attempt to play with the timing a bit?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Difficult times require difficult methods.
How long do you plan on having the car?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Location: Emerald city Washington
Orpackrat wrote:
Instead of dealing with removing the of the crank pulley, I just decided to tear out the plastic Timing Belt Cover, with it gone, putting the new belt on was easy, first attempt at timing, checking piston #1 at the top compression stroke didn't work, second attempt, saw that someone made a notch in the crank pulley so I pointed it up wards, the timing marker for the pistons down, put the belt on and it fired right up. My first timing belt change and it happened to be on the side of the road, was back on the road at about 3pm.

One little note, the engine seems a little more cold blooded, little harder to start in the mornings but not much and it also seems to have less power. The up side is that the engine on shut down is no longer trying to revive itself and shake apart the engine, its just a nice smooth shutdown. It is also idling smoother and runs smoother at higher RPM like with freeway travel.

I'm hoping that with the engine running smoother, the MPG will increase a bit, but I am wondering if I should attempt to play with the timing a bit?

.
Got to love the simplicity of the MK1
.
you my have noticed that when you installing the timimng belt it was a tad off if your car is lacking power revisit the position of the belt some time it will go on a half tooth retarded take the belt off and advance the cam the half tooth make the diffrence with the distributor timing
.
I've have/had most of the "G" family suzuki's and I have to say my fav is still the 1985 N/A chevy sprint /Forsa
because they are the strongest/ and simplest bar none
Suzuki's first generation car (MK1) for the Americas so the drive train were over built in this class of car
I defi anyone to dispute this
.
........jv&s
.

.
Image

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t3 ragtop wrote:
the 3 banger isn't at all a "grenade." it's a tough little son of a bitch doing a big job. respect it.
suprf1y wrote:
I didn't save anything.Vehicles are to me, like little boys are to Tommy.Toys to be abused for my own personal pleasure.
G-Whiz wrote:
I don't let just anyone work on my cars. Like the saying goes, "You don't let another man mess with your wife, so why would you let him mess with your car".


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Orpackrat wrote:
Instead of dealing with removing the of the crank pulley, I just decided to tear out the plastic Timing Belt Cover


There is rarely one of our cars I see in the junkyard that does not have that annoying tbelt cover ripped the fuck off. I have removed mine completely, there is no issue to drive without one.

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Posts: 141
Location: Salem OR
Phil N Ed wrote:
How long do you plan on having the car?


Probably for at least the next 20 years, I love this car, cheap and easy to fix, excellent mileage (I drive with a heavy foot and it carries a load most of the time but I still get a good 40mpg or so), I drive it so much that I need an oil change a month if not a little more often lol.


jaguar,vettes&sprints wrote:
.
Got to love the simplicity of the MK1
.
you my have noticed that when you installing the timimng belt it was a tad off if your car is lacking power revisit the position of the belt some time it will go on a half tooth retarded take the belt off and advance the cam the half tooth make the diffrence with the distributor timing
.
I've have/had most of the "G" family suzuki's and I have to say my fav is still the 1985 N/A chevy sprint /Forsa
because they are the strongest/ and simplest bar none
Suzuki's first generation car (MK1) for the Americas so the drive train were over built in this class of car
I defi anyone to dispute this
.
........jv&s


I advanced it a single notch and its back up to running just as it was, power is back, rough shutdown has not happened yet so I am hoping it wont still. I just ordered another timing belt (little less than $10) to have on hand in the car and will probably replace the alt/water pump belt and have a replacement for it in the car as well just in case.


TheSilverBullet wrote:

There is rarely one of our cars I see in the junkyard that does not have that annoying tbelt cover ripped the fuck off. I have removed mine completely, there is no issue to drive without one.


I like it with the cover off, makes adjusting and replacement a breeze. When the teeth on the belt tore off, most of my time working on the car was trying to get that cover off, after I decided to rip it out, it only took about 45minutes and most of the time was getting the final small chunks from around the crank pulley. After that is was about 5 minutes for the new belt and getting the engine running at least :mrgreen: .


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:41 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Orpackrat wrote:
Phil N Ed wrote:
How long do you plan on having the car?


Probably for at least the next 20 years, I love this car, cheap and easy to fix, excellent mileage (I drive with a heavy foot and it carries a load most of the time but I still get a good 40mpg or so), I drive it so much that I need an oil change a month if not a little more often lol.



Taking it one step at a time, here's question #2:
What type of oil are you throwing at it monthly for the next (hopefully) 240 oil changes?
It would be very interesting to see your actual set up and find out how you hope to accomplish an additional 20 years of driving the vehicle, for you are much more advanced than I.

For example:

Using 10W-40 dinosaur oil and changing it monthly in this-
Image

(with no oil leaks and no overheating 'drama')
I'd expect it to last 3-5 years max.
No, I don't run dinosaur oil, 10W-40 or change my oil monthly.
But I'm not an expert and am always willing to learn.
Removing the timing cover because it makes it easier can be extended to many parts of the vehicle.
Years ago, they removed the front and back windows.
It helped reduce air drag, wasn't really necessary, and saved a great deal of time washing the windows!
8)

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:20 am 
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Posts: 141
Location: Salem OR
I was told to run 5-30 oil so that is what I have been running, I am doing an oil change every 3k which turns out to be a little more than once a month.

Engine is at 172k miles right now, only oil consumption is from a couple minor leaks, I got a new oil pan gasket to fix one leak in a day or so when I change the oil again. The engine is simple, no AC, not a lot of clutter, runs rather well, blows no smoke at all.

20 years would be awesome, I am going to do everything I can to make the car last as long as possible. It saves me more than $200 a month in fuel compared to driving a Subaru around and I love it, especially since I only work part time.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:40 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Orpackrat wrote:
I was told to run 5-30 oil so that is what I have been running, I am doing an oil change every 3k which turns out to be a little more than once a month.

Engine is at 172k miles right now, only oil consumption is from a couple minor leaks, I got a new oil pan gasket to fix one leak in a day or so when I change the oil again. The engine is simple, no AC, not a lot of clutter, runs rather well, blows no smoke at all.

20 years would be awesome, I am going to do everything I can to make the car last as long as possible. It saves me more than $200 a month in fuel compared to driving a Subaru around and I love it, especially since I only work part time.

I'm by the side of the road with a broken timing belt.
I'm new to these engines, and cut out the belt cover to make it easier on me.
I want it as a daily driver of 36,000 annual miles to last 20 years.
(720,000 miles)

Man, this thread is awesome with a good cup of coffee and a donut.
It's bound to wake the most quiet amongst us.
This guy
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50568
has me convinced that he is doing everything he can to make the car last as long as possible.

:dunno:

I posted a video (above) of one of these puppies idling, but I would expect it to last say, 200,000 miles before a complete tear down and rebuild. Yours runs better?
This is information I need to learn!
(You drive 'em til they drop; I drive 'em til I shut them off.)
We're talking engines only, so:

You going to post some pictures of that 20 year/720,000 engine of yours?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
I imagine I will end up rebuilding it a couple times, my plan in the next year is to find another identical car and use it as a parts car, hope to find one cheap and the first thing would be to pull the engine and transmission to rebuild them, that way when the engines starts to wear out on this one, I can swap them and then have another to rebuild. For how much $$$ this car is saving me in fuel and extremely cheap and simple repairs, I plan to keep it as long as I can.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
Just over 172k miles:

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r274/Orpackrat/?action=view&current=2012-02-28_11-27-16_998.mp4


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
I'm beginning to learn from you:
Image
like I said, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Here's 30 seconds of one in Alabama:
Image
You only get 3 seconds or so of the tailpipe, but have a good listen between 26-30 seconds.
That thing hits HARD on all 3 cylinders.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
I got a lot of work to do to the car still, make a platform for the back, order the adjustable air shocks, build my custom dash, new brakes all the way around sometime in the next 6 months, I'm turning it into a S.U.G.S, Sport Utility Gas Saver.

I play paintball and have a ton of gear I haul around with me so on my trips, it will have probably 600lbs of gear in the back, myself and a passenger for another 400lbs or so. With all the extra stuff from the car I am removing and the stuff I will be putting back in, the weight of the car will be able the same as stock, perhaps a bit more.

I never run regular tires on cars, will be ordering new tires in the next year or so, get some more Traction Snow Tires, thinking about getting some slightly taller tires, see if that will help improve my HWY MPG. Going to straight pipe the Exhaust for the most part, thinking about putting a air scoop on my hood for a high flow cold air intake.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
like I said, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.


May be, but the good condition of the tool shed makes up for it :wink:

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
To do: finish stereo, 4000K H4 HIDs, short block replacement
'sponsored' by Captain Crunch, Lordco, Felpro, Permatex, Royal Purple


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
Picked up my new Timing Belt today, $9.99 and I have one in the car just in case.

Also added part that I hope will help the engine last a lot longer, installed one of these:

http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=128&products_id=777

Near the Drain plug on my oil pan. The idea is that the high powered magnet (87lbs pull) will draw down contaminates and just before an oil change, I will remove the magnet allowing the contaminates to exit with the old oil.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
TheSilverBullet wrote:
Orpackrat wrote:
Instead of dealing with removing the of the crank pulley, I just decided to tear out the plastic Timing Belt Cover


There is rarely one of our cars I see in the junkyard that does not have that annoying tbelt cover ripped the fuck off. I have removed mine completely, there is no issue to drive without one.


There is the issue of all sorts of road debris flying into the belt, wrecking and wearing out components that are meant to be covered and protected by the plastic cover! They are a half hour belt change, it's really not that hard to remove the lower pulley vs guessing at where tdc is and landing up doing it repeatedly as the author did. A rock can, and will, make its way in and shred the belt, that lower pulley swallows up anything that decides to land up between the belt and pulley. I have seen it happen more than once.
To the author, consider doing the front crank seal first rather than the oil pan gasket to correct your leak. Crank seals are always blamed on the oil pan gasket first due to the path of the leaking oil around the oil pan once it's leaked out. Common, cheap and easy fix. Then get a cover, maybe a water pump and get it all back together, sealed up properly.(cam seal to, easy to do at the same time)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:49 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Here's a better video of that engine I posted earlier:
Image
listen to his tailpipe at the 2 minute mark and compare it with yours.

I had forgotten about the road rash splashing up into the timing belt.
:oops:
Where I live, it is cold and the small animals crawl up into the engine at night to keep warm.
Without that timing belt cover, they get shredded before they get a chance to jump off.
Orpackrat probably lives in a civilized concrete jungle where there aren't any mice....must be nice! :lol:
I remember once, on a two day trip back from Oregon, I slept a few hours in a rest stop.
It was a bit cold, and the sleeping bag kinda smelled.
When I washed it, a dead mouse came out of the machine.
So I guess they can get inside the car, too.

Well, keep up the good work.
Since you were decent enough to post a video, here's the part number for the timing belt cover, for future reference:
9605 1592 (#13)
Oh yeah:
9605 1593
and
9605 1594 will get you the other seals which go up in there.

In case you are confused...
Image
that would be parts
#13, #14, #15, #16, and #17...almost like they knew those parts would need replacing.
(and a good parts man can still find them)

Keep up the good work; looking forward to updates!

Almost forgot...he's right about that front main seal.
Usually, oil leaks down and back.
If you see a slight oil 'stain' up high where the cam gear is, then that cam seal probably is due for replacement as well.
Ultra gray, ultra black, the right stuff, whatever, and let that oil pan gasket dry for a day or two and you'll be amazed at how long it will last without leaking a drop!
While you've got the oil pan off, stick a breaker bar up in the front main counter shaft or a piece of wood to hold that puppy in place while you crank on the front main bolt...it's a 17 6 point socket, as I recall.
Try to be careful; sometimes those motor mounts can ruin your day if you yank in the wrong direction.
Good job on the magnet; you can also get magnetized drain plugs, but at least your 'old school' thinking cap is on!
Seals and gaskets are cheap; once you get that thing dialed in...well, you can read my signature, I guess.

Is there some wire or fuel line running along the front of the engine?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:48 am 
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Location: Salem OR
At the time, a first change, limited tools side of the road, and 60 miles from home towing would have been expensive and I did not have the tools too remove the pulley. As to guessing where the timing mark was, didn't need too, someone before me was nice enough to mark the pulley so there was really no guess work.

I hear you about the rocks a debris getting to the belt, coming up one of my planned upgrades is to make and mount a skid plate for the front end. That will help keep debris from getting to it and help protect the bottom of the gingine when I go to less friendly places.

In addition, there is a red wire running across the top of the engine, I will be replacing that in a bit with a heavier duty wire as its the positive starter motor wire. When I first got the car the starter seemed like it was on its way out, then the new starter didn't work, after 2 days of testing different bits including taking the new starter for testing, I determined that the positive power cable was faulty. The wire across the top is the temporary replacement.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:34 am 
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Looking at your video, you seem very capable.
Fix it YOUR way, to suit you.
You are only as good as your parts.
A new cover is $35 or so, and if you are in a part time job, maybe you can't afford it.
Make sure you look for those little foam rubber parts first; the devil is in the details with those dust covers.
Like the man said, it is going to be cheaper to replace that cover than to build a skid plate, but doing BOTH might be your best solution, unless you live in a concrete jungle.
ALL our cars have lasted well over 20 years, but we do spend the $35 on new covers when they go bad.

The wiring harness in your car is very very simple, especially since it has no A/C.
Looking at the front of the engine, you've got the O2 sensor and oil pressure sending unit.
They curve over the top of that timing belt cover.
Then you've got the two solenoids that plug in: idle up actuator and second air valve.
There are the two connectors for the carburetor...
After that, you've got the alternator and finally the starter.
There are a couple of wires which attach to the temperature sending unit, radiator fan switch and back up light on the tranny.
The heavy duty wires going to the alternator and starter are removed, and the whole wiring harness is now in your hands.
Starting at the front of the engine, unplugging connectors, it would take you all of 15 minutes to remove that section of the wiring harness, but you probably don't need to go that far to fix that starter wire.
MK1s are easy, eh?

Here's a suggestion on the starter wire, but you do what you want. It is probably what t3 ragtop calls the spade connector which plugs into the back of the starter. A clever fellow like you should have no problem cleaning a little bit of the wire and crimping on a new insulated connector.

In the 'old days' we used to fix electrical problems like you have (temporarily) with a long length of wire.
It came in handy out in the back woods in case we needed a wire for something else.
However, where do you draw the line, wrapping an extra key with black tape and hiding it on the frame?

Good luck and make sure to update this thread.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Location: Salem OR
Most of my roads are paved, I live in Salem, I work in Silverton, my GF lives in Eugene, we usually pick spots across Oregon for our dates, I drive a lot in my car and then at work I drive about 3200 miles a month at work (drive a school bus). My outlook on cars is simple, I like functional and easy to work on even if im in the middle of no where, I carry extra tools and parts, extra fluids, tapes, sealants, and more.

I may later on get a new cover but for now I am working on getting higher priority parts like new shocks and later new struts. New brakes all the way around (brakes are good, I just want the parts in advance and will grab them when they are on sale). In terms of a skid plate, I can buy a nice large sheet of SS, bend, cut, and bolt it on place for less than $30 (metal recyclers).

The connectors for the starter works, it does supply power to the starter, it just can't supply the amperage, most it can make the starter do is pop out the solenoid. I hope to get in the next couple months a new alternator and battery to have on hand when mine go out, a larger battery and probably a 100amp alt. I like having large power capabilities since I do weekend outings and need the power. When I end up rebuilding my dash, I will integrate two 18ah sealed batteries on a manual charging circuit to independently power my 1500 watt continuous power inverter.

Got a lot planned for this car lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Posts: 141
Location: Salem OR
Yea, I am a bit of a DIY person, keep things as simple and inexpensive as possible, I got a trip over the mountain in 3 weeks, was going to cut down my chains from my old diesel truck I no longer have so I could have nice chains instead of the dumb cable chains, just picked up a set of older chains designed for small tires, just slightly too big for my tires so I got to remove a couple links but only costing $15 after some new links to better secure the chains to themselves and some nice rubber tarp straps.

For this car, I plan to only run traction snow tires for year round grip on and off road.

Of all the vehicles I have owned, (this is #13 I think, first car at age 11, 25 years old atm) this is one of my favorites.

Will get some pics up of under the hood.

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