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 Post subject: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
Plan on doing a p&p on my 1.0 head. I know that I have low compression. Did a leak down test with a buddy. I've never done one but he said it didn't appear to be blowing air out the PCV too bad, but each cylinder had some. Did compression test and ranged from 100-120 on all cylinders. Figured that was low due to valves. So, question is, if I yank the head how do I determine...

1) If I need new rings
2) If I am into a ring job or whole rebuild

I've read "Oh, ring job, simple! Pull the pan, yank out pistons, swap everything, pop 'em back in. No problem." Am I pulling the crank, if so new bearings all around? Am I honing, if so what if I'm not in spec in the cylinders, then am I boring .10, .20, .30 over? At that point I'm at a machine shop and pretty much into a rebuild anyway with everything bored, line bored, and going overboard!

My (limited) rebuild experiences are Chevy 350s. Are these as daunting and pricey? I don't want to touch the rings at all, and would rather do just the head, but if I'm down there already...

I value the wisdom in this forum and would appreciate any insight and wisdom. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:37 am
Posts: 1059
Location: Vancouver, Best Cannabis
if you do end up by getting a rebuilt kit, this really good website www.partsdinosaur.com has a kit for yu.

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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Alberta, Canada
The rings should be done. They suffer more from oil consumption after a head rebuild than compression loss. I have done 100's, and have had near perfect results popping the pistons out, cleaning them up and replacing rings, honing cylinders and putting it all back together. I always have rod bearings ready but often times the bearings are like new if it hasn't been run low on oil. It's cheap, and offers a reliable repair without any overkill. Main bearings will be fine, check them if you wish, but I don't even pull a cap lately as they just aren't a problem area.
Replace all 3 exhaust valves, use a quality head gasket, I had a lot of eBay ones fail, so avoid them. Make sure to replace front crank seal to. You won't find ring replacement difficult at all, expect an extra hour or two on the job. Well worth it, without rings they burn oil after and often have repeat valve issues which is a real pain!

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
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1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
I guess rings doesn't sound too bad. Do I need to mic (is that the term?) the cylinders? I don't think I have the tools for that. Also, never honed anything, but saw some videos on youtube and it doesn't look like rocket science. Am I just breaking up that glaze or actually removing metal? Reccomendations for ring manufacturers? Are their sizes/configurations? Is Simple Green a good cleaner for the parts?

I've heard partsdinosaur is a good source.
Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
I'm going to start tearing into the head today. Once it's off, in the community's opinion, do I need to mic (is that the term?) the cylinders? I don't think I have the tools for that. If I decide to replace the rings I will need to hone the cylinders. Never honed anything, but saw some videos on youtube and it doesn't look like rocket science. Am I just breaking up that glaze or actually removing metal? Reccomendations for ring manufacturers? Are their sizes/configurations? Is Simple Green a good cleaner for the parts?


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:03 am
Posts: 196
Location: lake stevens, wa
There is a ridge at the top of the cylinder wall where the piston rings dont touch. If its seems distinct you should probably take it to a machine shop. If its barely feelable you can get away with honing.

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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Alberta, Canada
I have used rings from various suppliers, never had an issue. Cylinder wear is not generally an issue, to the point of being a problem. When you are done, the piston to walk clearance may not be within spec, but it will wok just fine even slightly over what it ideally should be at, if that makes sense? It will have the same amount of cold piston slap that it has now, so as long as it sounds ok to you now(apart from roughness etc) it will be just fine. I don't mic the cylinders, but it is very important to check piston skirts for cracks, as they do crack occasionally.
Pick a home, run it up and down a few times just to break the glaze and you will be fine. I have done some without even honing and had the same great results, so they seem to be pretty forgiving.

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
Here goes nothin'! Yanked the head, pretty painless. Surprised to see that the tops of my pistons were fairly gunked up after doing a recent seafoam cleaning. Cylinder walls looked pretty good, to my untrained eye anyway. Felt/looked smooth, not grooves or scrapes. Felt the tops of the cylinders and detected the slightest of ridge at the top. Ever so slight. Don't think I'll worry about it. Packed up the head and shipped it off to 3Tech so Mike can work his magic. Now looking for a ring/gasket set. Hopefully I'll have time to monkey with the bottom end before I get the head back.

Anybody ever use copper head gaskets? Just curious what they are all about.

Wanted to post pics but can't figure it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
Got all rings, bearings, gaskets, etc. in mail today. Saturday I'm gonna get the bottom end buttoned up. I'll keep ya'll posted.

Oh yeah, anyone prefer ball hone or stone hone?


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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:49 pm 
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either hone will work. the ball hones are easier, i think, for guys who aren't used to running a hone. you can't slip up, cock the hone in a bore and gouge the wall.

keep working up and down to get the cross hatch pattern going at a 60* angle. don't slow down and let the hone spin without moving it up and down.

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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
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Location: sidney, nebraska
Also dont hone too long or you'll start oversizing.

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 Post subject: Re: Rings vs. Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Bozeman, MT
Sweet. Thanks y'all. Got the hone done, actually had an engine builder friend stop by and guide me through using the stone, but I bought some very low abrasive stones so as to make sure to just break the glaze and not go bonkers. New water pump, cleaned up oil pump and pan. Good to go once I get my head back.


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