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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Location: Ashland, Oregon
I bought a rebuilt car and after some pain, sweat and lots of searching through this forum manged to get the warm idle down from down from about 3000 RPM to a nice purr. however my cam roller is still not at the recommended mark when it's cold. Rather than the center, the leading edge of the roller lines up with the mark on the cam. How does this adjust? The idle cam screw only backs the roller towards or away from the cam as far as I can tell.

Also, the choke does not open all the way when the engine is warm, it's about 2/3 open. Is this related to the above problem?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:18 am 
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First, welcome to the forum.

Second, congratulations on searching. Hopefully it wasn't too painful.

Let us know what threads and books you were using to get your idle down from 3,000.
You typed MR08, so I'm thinking Haynes.

Regarding your choke, if it is 2/3 open at warm idle, consider what it would be driving through the Mojave Desert on a hot Summer afternoon.

What oil are you using in your engine?

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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:41 am 
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Location: Ashland, Oregon
I was hoping you would answer as the various threads that you weighed in on were my main resource for bringing the idle down. I thank you. I also have the Haynes manual, which was not of much help. I found the photos of the GM service manual for the 1 liter 3 cylinder engine on this forum and used them. That and the thread where you posted a picture of the carb with arrows pointing to the various idle adjustments:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35778

I didn't get it at first (I have never worked on a carb before and wasn't receiving any useful info from the mechanics who sold the carb to me or my local backyard mechanic), it wasn't until I pulled the carb off and looked again that I saw the idle cam adjusting screw. Somehow couldn't see past the grime on my old one, or I would have been spared the extra work.

So you are saying that the choke position is fine? It certainly runs well. The backyard mechanic I referred to, who works on a lot of carbs, is bothered that it doesn't open more, I was happy enough as it was.Still wonder why I can't get the cam follower to match up with the mark on the cam. On the old carb it is way off, and I see no way to adjust it. It isn't anything i need to know if its working fine, just curious, since the service manual says to make sure they are lined up but doesn't tell how to adjust it if it is not.

Oh, the oil, i was wondering what would be the best. I am using 30 weight. My wife has a Honda Insight which takes a special 0 weight oil, so I have been wondering if I should pour something lighter than 30.

Oh, the searching was not painful at all, I enjoy sleuthing. This is a great site.

Addendum: I just relayed the info about the carb to my mechanic and he says he has worked on a lot of them and never seen one where the choke plate was not vertical when the engine warmed to operating temperature. Is this the exception? Maybe the thermostat is off. We are going to warm it and then pour some boiling water on the pellet housing this afternoon to see if it will press the plate fully open.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:42 pm 
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tothehilt wrote:
I was hoping you would answer as the various threads that you weighed in on were my main resource for bringing the idle down. I thank you. I also have the Haynes manual, which was not of much help. I found the photos of the GM service manual for the 1 liter 3 cylinder engine on this forum and used them. That and the thread where you posted a picture of the carb with arrows pointing to the various idle adjustments:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35778


It appears you do your homework.
I like your effort, and applaud your results.
There are a few more threads which give better pictures of the adjustment screws and there are several posts which detail the fastest way to adjust them and in what sequence they should be adjusted.


tothehilt wrote:
I didn't get it at first (I have never worked on a carb before and wasn't receiving any useful info from the mechanics who sold the carb to me or my local backyard mechanic), it wasn't until I pulled the carb off and looked again that I saw the idle cam adjusting screw. Somehow couldn't see past the grime on my old one, or I would have been spared the extra work.


Don't feel like the Lone Stranger.
We ALL had to learn.
Yes, even me.
I am not ashamed to say that I learned a lot from this site and also from professional carburetor rebuilders in Los Angeles.
There are several fellows now active who are pretty decent with these carburetors.
mkc1962 and glacierburst have some excellent threads; check them out!


tothehilt wrote:
So you are saying that the choke position is fine? It certainly runs well. The backyard mechanic I referred to, who works on a lot of carbs, is bothered that it doesn't open more, I was happy enough as it was.Still wonder why I can't get the cam follower to match up with the mark on the cam. On the old carb it is way off, and I see no way to adjust it. It isn't anything i need to know if its working fine, just curious, since the service manual says to make sure they are lined up but doesn't tell how to adjust it if it is not.


You are correct.
I am saying the choke position is fine.
Better yet, I will let you post your average fuel mileage results per tank of gas and let those results do the talking.
Perhaps your backyard mechanic friend is like me - an old V8 person who wants that Holley 650 'dual pumper' cfm butterfly to be open all the way so she can BREATHE.
Yeah, baby. (Cut to Austin Powers...)
Or maybe he goes back to the old Stromberg '97s (again, like me).
But the 1980's brought a new tool which just about destroyed the backyard mechanic.
It was called the Oxygen Sensor.

These cars are a newer generation which use the O2 (oxygen sensor) to give feedback.
Simply put, the O2 sensor tells the computer how rich or lean the exhaust is, and the computer tells the carburetor how much fuel to meter/inject into the intake.

Consider this: I play with the choke and actually succeed in getting it to open all the way.
The O2 sensor will 'sense' the leaner condition and compensate by asking the carburetor to dump more fuel into the venturi.
The carburetor dumps more fuel in with the air that I've added.
Net result?
Same as I'm now getting.

After '95, automobiles use 2 Oxygen sensors to check the exhaust before and after the catalytic converter.
These cars in theory should get better gas mileage, but after '95 they also had to put in air bags which weighed down the cars. So, your car (MK1) gets better fuel economy.

Also, there is nothing wrong with being curious.

tothehilt wrote:
Oh, the oil, i was wondering what would be the best. I am using 30 weight. My wife has a Honda Insight which takes a special 0 weight oil, so I have been wondering if I should pour something lighter than 30.

Oh, the searching was not painful at all, I enjoy sleuthing. This is a great site.


It is not my recommendation, but one thing I've learned from the other owners on this site.
They seem to recommend 5W-30. It is even better if you have no engine oil leaks and use the full synthetic.
The more you learn about this site, the more helpful it will become.

tothehilt wrote:
Addendum: I just relayed the info about the carb to my mechanic and he says he has worked on a lot of them and never seen one where the choke plate was not vertical when the engine warmed to operating temperature. Is this the exception? Maybe the thermostat is off. We are going to warm it and then pour some boiling water on the pellet housing this afternoon to see if it will press the plate fully open.

Your mechanic is probably a very capable man.
I want to be clear: he has a lot of experience, and should be shown respect for his years of work.
It is always wise to listen to the voice of experience, and I have but little experience with these carbs.
Rather than attempting to 'fine tune' the carb between the two of you, hone your skills with a camera.
Take a few pictures, upload them to a folder dedicated specifically to your car, and then post the links to the pictures further down this thread.
As you develop your thread, and post pictures of how you've reassembled it, we'll be able to see if there is a problem with the linkage binding, or something to that effect.
Then, it will be like having a 'virtual mechanic' looking over your shoulder, checking your work.
I'm sure glacierburst and mkc1962 would LOVE to see what you've done.
Consider this before embarking on any more experiments.
If you wish to experiment with something, have a close look at your O2 sensor.
See if it is working; see if it is frozen in place.
If so, it might be due for a change.
That, more than the choke position, will affect fuel economy.
Also I read from 'glacierburst' that sight glass position has a direct effect on fuel economy.
Where is the fuel level in the sight glass?

For now, if the car is getting 45+ mpg, is peppy, the float level is half way up the sight glass, "where the choke is at warm idle" is the least of your worries. Checking the different vacuum lines for leaks?
Priceless!
(choke pull off, secondary,idle up, A/C if equipped, distributor, second air valve, EGR - did I miss any besides the brake vacuum booster?)

Filling in your profile is a pain, but somewhat important.
The climate changes quite a bit from West to East Oregon, so we can't really give you the best advice regarding your carburetor from 'Oregon' as a location, nor give you advice taking into consideration altitude.
Sometimes we can't give you a shipping quote, etc. etc.
Don't worry; we're not going to come knocking at 2 am.

Using Portland as a benchmark, the high temperature today will only get to 56F.
That may not be the best time to test your choke.
What would it hurt to check it on a hot July afternoon?

For now, run some fuel through it.
Fill it up, drive it. Fill it up, check the fuel mileage.
Get a feel for what it can do.
Then 'tweak' it...a little at a time...to get what you want out of it.

Sound deadener, nice tunes, clean it up... you get the picture.

Welcome to Teamswift.
I look forward to further updates on your car, and wish you the best of luck with it.
Happy motoring!

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Ashland, Oregon
"There are a few more threads which give better pictures of the adjustment screws and there are several posts which detail the fastest way to adjust them and in what sequence they should be adjusted."
Yes, I looked a t a few of those as well. They were also helpful.

"But the 1980's brought a new tool which just about destroyed the backyard mechanic.
It was called the Oxygen Sensor.

These cars are a newer generation which use the O2 (oxygen sensor) to give feedback.
Simply put, the O2 sensor tells the computer how rich or lean the exhaust is, and the computer tells the carburetor how much fuel to meter/inject into the intake."

That explains volumes. My mechanic is old school, as you surmised, and would quite humbly admit his lack of experience with more modern, computer controlled carbs. He will be interested to hear bout this.

By the way we tried the boiling water treatment, to no avail, and that was the last experiment. I had already more or less determined to just live with the carb as it is and see what kind of fuel mileage I was getting. I still need to install a timing belt cover and fix the windows so that they roll all the way up, higher priorities then tweeking the carb for the last drop of fuel economy (tightly rolled up windows will probably do more for that anyway). I am relieved to hear there is probably no need to pull the carb off again. I am still puzzled about that idle cam adjustment though. I see no way to change where the roller lines up with the mark. It's not too far off on the one I installed. The one I took off, which is here at my desk at near ideal temperature for measurement is 3/8" from the mark. Probably one of the many reasons why the car ran so bad when i got it. Even then, with some bad vacuum leaks as well it got 40 mpg overall. This car is a penny pinchers delight!

"Filling in your profile is a pain, but somewhat important."

OK. will do, but the pictures may have to wait.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Location: Ashland, Oregon
One last question just to settle matters. My elder venerable mechanic tells me that he has worked on carbs with O2 sensors, and reiterates that he has never seen a carburetor whose choke plate did not come to vertical at normal operating temperatures. I told him I'd look at some cars around town - it's a fairly popular vehicle here - provided I could get the owners permission, and see where their choke plates were. Then I realized I could just ask you since you have installed so many of these. Perhaps you have already answered this in your statement about driving through the Mojave, forgive my density. Anyway, when the engine comes to full operating temperature, is it normal for the choke plate to be only half way open on this carburetor?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:


I like your effort, and applaud your results.


You are correct.
I am saying the choke position is fine.
Better yet, I will let you post your average fuel mileage results per tank of gas and let those results do the talking.




Consider this: I play with the choke and actually succeed in getting it to open all the way.
The O2 sensor will 'sense' the leaner condition and compensate by asking the carburetor to dump more fuel into the venturi.
The carburetor dumps more fuel in with the air that I've added.
Net result?
Same as I'm now getting.


Rather than attempting to 'fine tune' the carb between the two of you, hone your skills with a camera.
Take a few pictures, upload them to a folder dedicated specifically to your car, and then post the links to the pictures further down this thread.


As you develop your thread, and post pictures of how you've reassembled it, we'll be able to see if there is a problem with the linkage binding, or something to that effect.


For now, if the car is getting 45+ mpg, is peppy, the float level is half way up the sight glass, "where the choke is at warm idle" is the least of your worries. Checking the different vacuum lines for leaks?
Priceless!
(choke pull off, secondary,idle up, A/C if equipped, distributor, second air valve, EGR - did I miss any besides the brake vacuum booster?)


For now, run some fuel through it.
Fill it up, drive it. Fill it up, check the fuel mileage.
Get a feel for what it can do.
Then 'tweak' it...a little at a time...to get what you want out of it.

Sound deadener, nice tunes, clean it up... you get the picture.

Welcome to Teamswift.

I look forward to further updates on your car, and wish you the best of luck with it.
Happy motoring!


We have a member somewhat close to you who is using his Turbo Sprint as a daily driver.
He gets 40+ mpg regularly. The reason I mention him is because, like you, he is an excellent fisherman.

You will get some very astute help from glacierburst or mkc1962, but you'll need to spend some time behind a digital camera. (saying the position of the butterfly at warm idle - valuable...posting a picture of its position: priceless!)
These men are eager to help and quite experienced.
Let them help!
Start by opening a 'photobucket.com' account (it is free).
Then, create a 'public' folder dedicated to your Chevrolet Sprint.
Click a few photos of the vehicle, and upload them to that folder.
We'll do the rest.
Your friend may be correct, and he may be WAY off, but until you upload the pictures of your concerns,
no one will go out on a limb to butt heads with him.
Help us help you; there are a LOT of people on this site who have great running Sprints.

We won't steer you wrong.

Don't feel that you need to limit the number of questions you ask.
Indeed, my brother is an accountant for a small company you may have heard of.
Hint: from the I to the R to the S...

I'll try not to hold that against you. Ha! :lol:

Continue to update your thread.
Run a tank or two of gas through it.
Let's see what mileage it is getting.
Do you smell gas under the hood?

Lots of work to do, but we can't do much until you help us help you, eh?

Happy motoring!

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Location: Ashland, Oregon
"We have a member somewhat close to you who is using his Turbo Sprint as a daily driver.
He gets 40+ mpg regularly. The reason I mention him is because, like you, he is an excellent fisherman."

Hold on there, I never claimed to be an excellent fisherman, unless that means that I get an immense enjoyment from fishing that I cannot put into words.

"Do you smell gas under the hood?"
No.
"Start by opening a 'photobucket.com' account (it is free).
Then, create a 'public' folder dedicated to your Chevrolet Sprint.
Click a few photos of the vehicle, and upload them to that folder.
We'll do the rest."

Done. My user name is the same as here, tothehehilt. I have two photos of the carb after driving back from town. Temp gauge is in the middle. I would say the choke plate is only half way open.
http://s1159.photobucket.com/albums/p626/tothehilt/

"Indeed, my brother is an accountant for a small company you may have heard of.
Hint: from the I to the R to the S...

I'll try not to hold that against you. Ha! :lol:"

I'm on the other side of the coin.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:05 am 
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You seem to be a man of integrity, I'll give you that.

Your Teamswift neighbor is like us; he gets great satisfaction chasing the fish, although he might come back with a bit less than he'd like.

Glad you're on the 'other side of the coin'; being on the wrong end changed my brother from the sweet kid he used to be.

On your pictures, great job.
Exactly what we need to see, and I'm guessing you took a picture while it was warmed up.

First, let's look at your two pictures again.

One:
(I click the 'IMG' code which is the last of the 4 codes specific to the picture, that copies it to my 'clipboard'.
next, I hit control V and presto)
Image
and two:
Image
Now we have the picture in the thread.
I realize it was a pain for you, and there are several on here who will NOT post a picture.
They can't complete a sentence, either but that's a story for another day.

Moving right along, it looks like they mated an early model accelerator pump to a later model carb.
That shouldn't be a problem.
What is the level of gas during idle at the sight glass?
(Apologies if already answered; I'm not the best at reading your posts, but it is one of the more important parameters, and NOW would be the time to make sure it is adjusted correctly!)

For a moment, let's imagine you are 'double jointed at the elbow.
Now imagine you are in a tight passage and unable to extend that hand all the way.
Your elbow could be in two positions, either locked above or locked below the horizontal position. This is the case with your choke levers as they come from the choke pull off and/or as they come from the intermediate pivot point to the thermowax element and the carb body.
It is possible that you've got the choke lever locked in the wrong position.

Here are two pictures of carburetors with no problem with their choke travel:
Image
In the first picture, you can see how the lever from the choke goes straight down.
Take a close look at the lever from the choke pull off and see if yours is the same.
Now, let's look at the second picture:
Image
Here you can see the choke pull off is missing.
The lever all the way to the right can also get into the wrong position.
In the photo, you can only see the top of the pivot point.
From there, it heads straight down.
Your eyes are probably better than mine.
See if your carburetor looks like those.
1.) When you pull off the top for any reason, it is possible to get those levers back in the wrong position.
2.)If you pull off the 'thermowax element' which is the unit that carries the coolant, you can also accidentally put the levers in a bind.
3.)Last, when you remove the choke pull off, it can accidentally go over when it should go under and vice versa.

I'm picking door #2 for $500.

So maybe your backyard mechanic friend is not too far off.
Have another look at your choke linkage.

I'm not so sure how clear this photo is, but
Image
the linkage on it is correct, at least from the feedback that was given from the guy who received it.

If all else fails, I try and keep a large hammer nearby
Image
and when I completely lose my patience, I just smash the things to bits.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Have another look at the linkage, and see if that's your problem.
You may have to remove the top to understand the two different ways the linkage can go back together.
If I'd have to make a wild guess, I'd say your thermowax element install was the problem, as the linkage from it seems to be too high. However, if it was the choke pull off, that would be an easier fix. The 'worst case' scenario is that the top install was wrong. It happens.

Again, thanks for posting your pictures.
Without it, I'd be dismissing your 'back yard mechanic', but now, I'm sort of thinking he's a bit sharper than me! Hopefully glacierburst or mkc1962 (who are monitoring this thread) will check out your photos and weigh in; they've got much better eyesight and don't resort to the...well...smashing them to bits part.


Can you pull that choke open all the way with your finger, hot or cold?
If not, you may have the linkage in a bind.
(yes, it's happened to me :oops: )
I don't have one on a bench this moment, but last time I did, it seems like I recall you could open the choke all the way with your finger. Maybe not.

By the way, don't forget to take a picture of that lower part that doesn't line up.
That may be related to your thermowax assembly being in a bind.

You've almost got it fixed, just don't lose you cool.

:thumbsup:

Once you do get it fixed, there's a new member (broke44) who seems to have a similar interest in your project. Keep an eye on him. :wink:

Sincere apologies for any missed personal pronouns and lack of complete sentences. :oops: :oops: :oops:

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:59 pm 
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OK, I took two more pictures of the carb. If I am understanding what you a referring to, then my choke lever is out of position, It comes straight off the choke pull off , horizontal, not vertical.

Image

The carb I pulled off the car has the lever in the same position. It never fully opened either.

Not sure what lever you are referring to in the second picture you posted. You say its on the right, are you referring to the one with two screws that attaches to the idle cam, or is it the throttle lever or the rod that comes down from it?

This picture shows me holding the choke pull off open, you can see even then that the choke doesn't fully open. Of course I don't know that it should.

Image

The float level through the sight glass is well over the half way mark, probably a bit less than 1/16 of an inch from the top.

I can pull the choke plate fully open with my finger, with the engine hot or cold. I can also, with a screwdriver and considerable care, push down on the lever that the wax pellet is supposed to push and fully open the choke.

I still have the option of returning this carb to the rebuilders and having them sending me another, just doubtful that that will not be a whole new set of problems.

Now, one more thing, about that hammer, what weight is it and is there any brand that you would recommend?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Hello tothehilt,

After reading this post , In seeing that you have a really nice carb to start with, In you already getting the best advice from the best carb guy here (Phil) I'll add to the post. There is a way to adjust the choke valve clearance. I had I choke vavle that did the same thing (not as fare as yours) But it didnt open up all the way (rich). So I'll post the Instrutions here that I used to get it to open all the way. Here goes, Below I will scan the GM product servive training manul that will show step by step on how to adjust your (choke pull off) and (unloader lever) in cam follower.,Fast Idle cam. Below I have scanned the info from my book. As phil said just take it slow. These carbs are very touchy. But they will give you great power and MPG when rite. We love these cars in want to keep them on the road. We are here to help...Good job on the pictures by the way....


Attachments:
1.pdf [260.86 KIB]
Downloaded 25 times
2.pdf [1.86 MIB]
Downloaded 25 times

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:23 pm 
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I took a couple pictures of my choke so you could see about where it should be at temp. As PhilnEd stated it will be at different positions at different temps. Here I'm showing car at idle 750-800 RPM, At 68-70 deg outside temp, Motor temp about 160-165<---still a little cold. If you notice the chock flap is almost vertical,( Almost ) This mooring it was 3/4 of the way shut till car was driving for 15 min.


Attachments:
File comment: out-side temp
temp outside.JPG
temp outside.JPG [ 438.9 KIB | Viewed 1924 times ]
File comment: motor temp
motor temp.JPG
motor temp.JPG [ 489.86 KIB | Viewed 1924 times ]
File comment: choke at 120deg
choke at 120.JPG
choke at 120.JPG [ 499.19 KIB | Viewed 1924 times ]
File comment: choke at 160-165
choke at 160.JPG
choke at 160.JPG [ 478.96 KIB | Viewed 1924 times ]

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Location: Exeter California 93221
If you notice my oil pressure is low.. Your rite. Thats with 0-40 full synthetic Mobile 1. So thats why its good to run 5-30. I'm doing some testing on my car, So I'm running a 0-40. I wouldnt recommend a 0 on these cars. 5-30 seems to work the best for me in my claimant. Where its hot in the day, cold at night. I will be changing out that oil shortly with a 5-30 full synthetic. Also if you have a small oil leak? It will turn into a big one with synthetic. Semi synthetic work great to...Please keep up the good work so we can check in and learn as well....here is a link to check out the chevy sprint http://www.sonnet.com/usr/matt2/

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:22 pm 
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tothehilt wrote:


I can pull the choke plate fully open with my finger, with the engine hot or cold.

Now, one more thing, about that hammer, what weight is it and is there any brand that you would recommend?

If you can pull the choke plate (butterfly) open all the way, then your choke levers are probably OK.
So my theory that they are locked in the wrong position is dead in the water.

Next, look at the spring that is holding the butterfly closed.
Is it hooked to the right 'things'?

Looking at glacierburst's choke plate, that puppy is wide open.
Yours should be almost the same, like your friend said.

What year is your car?

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Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Thanks, glacierburst for your advice. I had looked at that section of the service manual before as did my mechanic, but we never got around to trying to bend the choke lever. Last night I was finally able to line up the pin holes on the carb I took off, but not sure as to how to bend the choke lever now that I have it in position

I got to thinking that the choke did not open much on my other carb either and reasoned it my not be the carb but something to do with my engine. In a rash act I took a propane burner and heated the housing to the thermo unit (don't try this at home kids). The plate finally moved to vertical for the first time, so i know it can do it. It just never gets hot enough to move the choke piston for some reason. I replaced the thermostat today, but to no avail (unless I just have not driven it far enough). I did manage to break off the wires to the thermoswitch , so I ordered another for tomorrow. One of them may already have been broke.

Thanks for all the pictures, both of you. I am amazed at all the free help I am getting from you two, and very thankful.

My car is a 1988. I believe it to be the er model as I get messages as to when to shift, and my understanding is that is specific to the er.

If I don't find anything soon I think I am going to try putting a manual choke on it, unless you think that would cause other problems.

I'll look some more at how the choke plate is hooked up. But I am suspicious


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Your very welcome ....ER model? Very cool!!! Post pics of it when you can. The er is rare.....Does your vin have a MR or MS in it. As noted above my choke doest open up all the way till its 160-180deg. Also if it below 55-60 deg outside, It might not open up all the way at all. Keep us informed.

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:34 pm 
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It has an MS in the vin number, what does that signify?
When your choke plate is at 160 degrees, how far extended is the plunger that comes from the thermo wax? This seems to be the problem in my car, that plunger never moves more than a quarter inch. I was hoping to hear or see some slipping in the timing belt, which would maybe would explain a lack of hot water to the thermo wax, but could not detect anything. Any other possibilities as to why coolant would not come up to temperature?

I'll stare some more at the carbs I have and the various pictures and see if something jumps out at my about the linkage.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:15 am 
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Two things.

In model year 1988, they had a 'Sprint Metro' with an MS designation in the VIN.
Maybe that's what you've got, especially if it has a grille like this:
Image
and says Sprint Metro above the right rear tail light:
Image
...but the black 'Sprint Metro' may have been removed.
Second, I recall having a piece of gasket sealer make its way into the small metal pickup tube down at the metal tube running from the water pump across the back of the engine.
This made the travel of hot water/coolant up to the thermowax element very slow.
(Hope you can understand this wordy English, or should I type, "I hope you can understand this wordy English?)
:oops:
Actually it was an incidental finding upon a rebuild.
You could have a perfectly decent carburetor and it is being 'starved' for hot liquid.

Run it and see what kind of mileage you are getting before you break too much more.

Otherwise, use that big hammer... :lol:

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:47 am 
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Yes, it is a Sprint Metro, says Metro on it on the grill, below the tail lights, and on both sides in front of the doors. Does this mean it is not an ER? I thought all the 1988 Sprints with carburetors were Metros and the ER was a subclass of them. Are there Metro's that have indicator lights that tell when to shift that are not ER's?

I think a radiator flush is in order for this car. I probably need to drain the cooling system again to replace the thermo switch so may as well try this. It does seem as if a lack of heat, probably due to lack of circulation to the thermo wax, is the problem. If that doesn't do it, I'll probably install a manual choke if possible.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:47 am 
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tothehilt wrote:
Yes, it is a Sprint Metro, says Metro on it on the grill, below the tail lights, and on both sides in front of the doors. Does this mean it is not an ER? I thought all the 1988 Sprints with carburetors were Metros and the ER was a subclass of them. Are there Metro's that have indicator lights that tell when to shift that are not ER's?

I think a radiator flush is in order for this car. I probably need to drain the cooling system again to replace the thermo switch so may as well try this. It does seem as if a lack of heat, probably due to lack of circulation to the thermo wax, is the problem. If that doesn't do it, I'll probably install a manual choke if possible.

Good posting.
If it has 'MR' in the VIN it is probably a Chevrolet Sprint.
For 1988, if it has a 'MS' in the VIN, it is probably a Sprint Metro.
There's a thread somewhere explaining the legal reason for the transition from Sprint to
Sprint Metro to Metro. Me? I'm no lawyer.
I haven't heard of a 1988 Sprint ER, but that doesn't mean to say they don't exist.
People add all kinds of fenders and accessories.
I'm not aware of any 1988 Sprint Metros which did NOT have an upshift light.
Again, your experience may vary.
Nor am I aware of a Sprint Metro which came with an automatic transmission.
1985 to 87? You probably will find a Sprint ER...
Bottom line: the Sprint Metro is probably the 'ER' (extended range) version of the Chevrolet Sprint for Model Year 1988.

Speaking of shoving it in to the hilt:
You might consider posting a few pictures of your car either in that new photobucket album you've created, or this thread (or both) so we can see what you have.
Those close ups show great ability to micro manage, but it is nice to get the 'whole picture' too.
We probably won't be stealing yours if we already own one, eh?
Then we wouldn't need to ask what year it is, etc.

The reason I asked what year you have is due to the feedback mechanisms.
You have the last carburetor version Suzuki in the USA.
It has an altitude sensor in a different place than the 1985 and 1986 Sprints.
Also, you can test for codes without a code reader.
Now would be a good time to do that and report your findings.

Your idea for a radiator flush is a nice one.
Even so, if there is a slightly restrictive plug in the tube leading to the carburetor, a flush won't clean it out, especially if it is an aberrant piece of gasket sealer.
Blowing through the two rubber hoses with air, however may dislodge things.
Arteriosclerosis sets in on those tiny metal nipples.
You might consider that at the intake manifold and the water tube.
From now on, let's make a pact to 'fix' the car and not 'break' any more parts, OK?
:lol:


It might take a few tanks of gas (and driving) to get a rough idea of what mileage you're getting, but if you are getting 45+mpg, fixing it further might be throwing good money after bad.
(A noble pursuit, but not cost-effective AKA 'why fix it if it isn't broken?')

If you are planning on putting in sound deadener, that's another matter...

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DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:12 am 
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Almost forgot: if you need spare parts, here's one...

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4752428/1/

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:13 am 
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Location: Ashland, Oregon
"The reason I asked what year you have is due to the feedback mechanisms.
You have the last carburetor version Suzuki in the USA.
It has an altitude sensor in a different place than the 1985 and 1986 Sprints.
Also, you can test for codes without a code reader.
Now would be a good time to do that and report your findings."

Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "testing for codes." What is involved and what would it tell me?

the altitude sensor would not prevent the choke plunger from plunging would it?

I'll get a pic of the car up soon.

I hate taking off hoses, but it sounds like a good idea. It's hard to believe the car could be operating at full efficiency with the choke only half open.
I was getting 40+ mpg before, with quite a large vacuum leak on the old carb, so i would not be surprised if i got 45+ now. Understand, I do most of my driving on the highway, 45 mph and under, and then some freeway, mostly under 65 mph. I also use the pulse and glide method they talk about on the metro mpg site whenever practical, which in my small town, is often.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:25 am 
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The car being sold is like mine, even the same color (which I am guessing is the most popular for this car as I have already seen a few of them in Ashland).


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 pm 
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They made very few sprint ER. They made even few sprint metro, Still not many on the road. If it has a up shift light? I'd say its a sprint metro. Wich is the same as the sprint ER. In the later modle like the sprint Metro they had a basic obo1 ECM computer. It will actuly flash the sensor/check engine light when the switch in fuse box or under the steering wheel is turned on. In the early sprint (like mine) It can only tell you if it works or not (doesnt show code). In the 1988 can actuly tell you what part has failed, by flashing the sensor/check engine light of blink....Like a old chevy truck... blink blink =2,blink blink blink =3 SO that means code 23 etc...Eather way its a hyper milage car. GOOD FIND!!! I have a 1985 chevy sprint MK1. Now I have a 1986 chevy sprint ER wich is waiting for my to restore it. Here is a link by mck1962. After you do some mpg testing you can post your MPG. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52008&hilit=dwell+what+does

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Ok I just went back to your post in read about the ? about the thermo. Have you checked for air in the cooling system. What I mean is when you put the carb back on. You reinstalled the 2 water lines running up to the carb. Sometimes air will get in the lines and it wont transfer heat from water to thermo. I would take those 2 lines off, in check for corrosion on the inside of the thermo wax lines....When reinstalling hoses, Fill them up with water to make sure to get most of the air out of the 2 lines. Run the engine with the rad cap off to burp out the air. Message the top rad hose with the rad cap off to help burp system. (Watch out for that fan) In hot water...

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1985 chevy sprint 5speed 1.0 Mk1 (Blue). 1999 Geo metro 5speed 1.0 (Silver). 2003 XL-7 2.7l V6 AUTO (White). 2005 XL-7 2.7L V6 AUTO (Cobalt Blue). 1996 mercury cougar 4.6 auto (Goldish?). New to the family 1998 VW new Bettle 2.0 5speed (Black) Restord <--- (hers)<---- Gone to a new home. Replaced with 2003 Turbo 1.8T 6speed (black) ... In One 1986 chevy sprint ER (White) In line for a restore <---None runner <---(parts). Thats 7... So I'm under a hood alot... Why? Kuzz we love cars!


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