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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:00 am 
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Location: Saskatchewan,Canada
so basic i have a K&N on my car now its small but i though well i wanna make the intake hose out of thin wall pipe and etc why not add bigger filter im not sure what is the max size i could add tho :s what is your guy's air filter sizes that you stuck on your car like K&N or air raid etc as a cold air intake or fender well intake as I'd call it lol


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:16 am 
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Is this for the 1.3L 99 firefly? I went through you posts to see what car you were talking about.
With those you can take your whole intake tube off and put a cone filter right on the throttle body....zip tie the air temp sensor that came out of the tube, and put it right on the outside of the cone...worked for me, and it sounded great :D

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89 Swift gti
Modified B16 P29 75mm pistons,13:1CR, cultus intake, genie header, genie exhaust, 3tech head, 3tech 222/365 cams, 3tech UD pulley, megasquirt 2.0, 60mm throttle body, Aluminum flywheel


Last edited by beached on Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:59 am 
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Or leave the tube on, remove the filter assembly and put a short piece of 2 1/2" exh. tubing inside the rubber hose to stiffen it up. Then put a cone filter on the end. That's what I've done.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:59 pm 
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i was just thinking doing pipe from throttle body down a bit and then putting big K&N by the fender so it has to suck more air then the one i have atm not sure how big i could go i was thinking more of a oval type one


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:21 am 
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Keep in mind. These engines can only suck so much air. Once you have a filter that can flow more air then the engine needs going bigger wont change a thing. Your better off with a smaller fiter plumbed out of the hot engine bay then a big one sucking in hot air from the engine. And even the smallest k&n filter will flow more air then the car can take in.

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92 geo metro 1.0L 5 spd. 2 dr Soon to be my turbo swap car. (Dragonfly) sold
91 pontiac firefly, 1.0L 2dr auto. stock. (The crap can) sold
91 chevy sprint. 1.0L 5 spd. My first turbo swap. (Red rocket) now the purple nurple
95 geo metro. 1.3L auto parts car. (Scrap)
91 chevy sprint turbo, blueboy keeping it "stock"


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:46 am 
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Location: Saskatchewan,Canada
heat is only for winter tho summer u wanna suck cold air off fender atleast thats how it was for the old school trucks / cars helped warm engine and release choke faster


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:02 am 
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i have never agreed with the cai guys and their assertions.

these cars have a heated throttle body. trying to duct cold air is like taking a shower in a rain coat.

the last thing you want to do is to add piping to the induction set. longer pipes induce flow restrictions. guys who use convoluted tubing like drier ducting really shoot themselves in the foot.

it is a proven fact that underhood temps aren't much higher than a couple of degrees from ambient and that kills the "hot air" argument. adding the length to get the inlet to the induction pipe outside of the engine bay drops the flow rate enough to offset any gains you might see from the couple of degree drop of inducted air.

the throttle body is heated, the intake manifold is heated, the inducted air is pre-heated. until you block engine coolant from the intake manifold and throttle body and add some type of material to de-couple heat transfer from the engine block to the intake manifold and the intake manifold to the throttle body the whole cold air intake debate is moot. :blackeye:

based on that viewpoint, your best shot at improving the induction set is to build something that has a smooth inner wall, a slightly larger inner diameter, and a shorter length with a filter that has less restriction.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:45 pm 
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can i disable the heated throttle body lol i was planning on getting 3" filter with 3" pipe with stiff rubber or maybe smaller exhaust pipe not too sure yet


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:21 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
i have never agreed with the cai guys and their assertions.

these cars have a heated throttle body. trying to duct cold air is like taking a shower in a rain coat.

it is a proven fact that underhood temps aren't much higher than a couple of degrees from ambient and that kills the "hot air" argument. adding the length to get the inlet to the induction pipe outside of the engine bay drops the flow rate enough to offset any gains you might see from the couple of degree drop of inducted air. :blackeye:

based on that viewpoint, your best shot at improving the induction set is to build something that has a smooth inner wall, a slightly larger inner diameter, and a shorter length with a filter that has less restriction.



Some what true but not always. I droped 40°C in my grand prix by scraping tye factory air box and useing a custom fender mounted cai. So they can help. Our cars are so wide open it woukd not be anywhere colse to that. And yes. If your goin to do it at the very least disable the heated tb. Just be carefull is cold wimter climates you dont freeze up. That has happend to me before. Not fun.

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92 geo metro 1.0L 5 spd. 2 dr Soon to be my turbo swap car. (Dragonfly) sold
91 pontiac firefly, 1.0L 2dr auto. stock. (The crap can) sold
91 chevy sprint. 1.0L 5 spd. My first turbo swap. (Red rocket) now the purple nurple
95 geo metro. 1.3L auto parts car. (Scrap)
91 chevy sprint turbo, blueboy keeping it "stock"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:46 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
it is a proven fact that underhood temps aren't much higher than a couple of degrees from ambient and that kills the "hot air" argument.


I have my cone filter in its normal location, and since I have megasquirt I have all the readouts on my phone(or tablet) when driving...and yes the intake air temperature is just slightly higher than ambient. I was pretty shocked actually.
But when I'm stuck in traffic that number really climbs, obviously.

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89 Swift gti
Modified B16 P29 75mm pistons,13:1CR, cultus intake, genie header, genie exhaust, 3tech head, 3tech 222/365 cams, 3tech UD pulley, megasquirt 2.0, 60mm throttle body, Aluminum flywheel


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:02 pm 
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i should have qualified my statement by including "while the car is moving." :wink:

back in the day i temporarily mounted a thermocouple array and a portable data scanner to measure temps under the hood. since then there have been several people who have reproduced the same data.

turbo versions are a little different because there is a considerable amount of infra-red coming off the turbo housing and i have dealt with that by using various shields and insulating turbo blankets. also, with a turbo and megasquirt the iat sensor is positioned after the intercooler. inducted air hits the cold side turbo snail where it picks off a percentage of the hot side's heat along with generated heat of compression, then it passes through the intercooler to help drop the charge air's temp before it is fed through the throttle body and intake manifold. still, the inducted air gets pre-heated by the throttle body and intake manifold unless you do more fancy stuff to reduce thermal transmission from the head and coolant.

with a typical n/a engine there's not much more than a degree or 2 difference from ambient.

once again, the throttle body and intake manifold both have engine coolant running through them which essentially raises the temperature of inducted air as it enters the engine so even if you extend the intake to induct outside air, it is still being heated as it enters the manifold.

giving a turbocharged engine a pass in this discussion and relating to a normally aspirated engine, i still maintain that the reduction of air velocity that comes from extending the inlet piping causes worse performance than using a short induction pipe and inducting air from the corner of the engine bay. a "ram air" type intake is virtually ineffective, a cold air system is virtually ineffective, but building a short runner, smooth walled, slightly larger diameter intake with a high flow filter works great. i have done a number of twincam engines this way with positive results.

i try not to get into discussions unless i have some personal experience on which i can base my comments. this is one area where i have more than a few years' experience on which i can base my assertions. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:26 pm 
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What about a bucket of ice? :huh:

Only kidding :lol:

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89 Swift gti
Modified B16 P29 75mm pistons,13:1CR, cultus intake, genie header, genie exhaust, 3tech head, 3tech 222/365 cams, 3tech UD pulley, megasquirt 2.0, 60mm throttle body, Aluminum flywheel


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:06 am 
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beachedbru wrote:
What about a bucket of ice? :huh:

Only kidding :lol:


Or a bong? :ez_pimp:


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 4:45 am 
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My question is what length and diameter pipe did you use?
What air filter did you use?

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:48 pm 
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richard, i used 2.25 inch thinwall polished aluminum tubing and silicone hose tubing connectors at the throttle body and maf.
Image

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:28 am 
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Did the CAI make a difference in your car's fuel efficiency?


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