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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:57 am 
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Location: Red Deer, Alberta
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Any thoughts or opinions? From what I can figure, the front swaybar is fine, but a bigger rear swaybar is needed over that dinky 14mm (the rear rolls, then lifts the front inside wheel on exit of a corner). Front struts are feeling fairly worn, and since the car is going to be parked soon for the winter, I can add KYB's all around. I am going to try cutting the coils at first. Depending on how well that goes, I will eventually look at something like H&R's. Any other tricks that are relatively easy, won't break the bank, and will keep me in F Super Stock?

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

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Last edited by HiTempguy on Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:22 am 
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"lose nut behind the wheel"

seriously, you never want to be picking up the front tire on an open diff fwd, massive wheelspin and a really good chance of a rollover. have you tried running autocross with the front swaybar disconnected yet ?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:36 am 
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number one!

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Quite possibly the coolest pic on teamswift yet.... wow :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:44 am 
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I am trying to get rid of the roll n1tr0. Removing the front swaybar would have made it worse, correct?. I need the bigger swaybar (on the rear) to keep the whole chassis flat, including the front.

Edit-
N1tr0, I now understand your point after CJDave explained it to me. I shall try that next event if I don't have some other things sorted out. However, I assume that it would be better to eliminate the roll eventually as to maximize the cornering potential of the car?

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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 Post subject: sway bar
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:53 am 
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Adam you should have spent some some time chatting with the fast guys from BC. They are more then helpful on setup.

Get proper bushings in your suspension.
Get a mk3 rear sway bar <19mm>, and increase your spring rate.
Decrease your roll center to 3in front and 2.5 inch rear for starters.
What is your frequencey of your suspension?

Pretty cool pic though, direct opposite of my swift in an auto-X. With hoosier race tires, when driving fast its like driving on ICE.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:54 am 
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you don't need bigger swaybars, you need training wheels :P

when you're lifting both front and rear tires on the inside, you're WAY past fixing it with a swaybar, unhooking the front swaybar will at least leave you with a bit of power/control for longer, when you lift the front like that you're in rollover/crash territory and nothings going to help you.

you may want to try lowering the car further and doing whatever you can to lower the center of gravity...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:08 am 
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The problem I just noticed with lowering the car can be found in this picture

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Look at the front tire.... the tire looks like it will hit the fender if I lower my car more than 1/2". I will check out the rules about rolling my fenders (I'd buy some cheap wrecking yard ones to do it to).

Quote:
Get proper bushings in your suspension.

My rear a-arm bushings are shot for sure. Would you suggest replacing the bushings with factory rubber ones, or using 3 prep points for all ply bushings?

Quote:
Get a mk3 rear sway bar <19mm>, and increase your spring rate.

I have been trying extremely hard to find one locally to no avail (the 19mm rear bar). As for the spring rate, cutting the coils will do that as well as lower the car correct?

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Decrease your roll center to 3in front and 2.5 inch rear for starters.

Err...ya.... I'll get right on that :? I don't quite understand what you mean Murr :lol:

Quote:
What is your frequencey of your suspension?

No clue what this means... I'll hazard a guess at you mean what the natural frequency of the springs are, and in order to do this I would need to tap the springs with something and do the necessary measurement?

Thanks for your help everybody, hopefully this will get me on the right track! More comments the better, cause as usual I need all the help I can get.

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


Last edited by HiTempguy on Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:56 am 
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I think you should take up stunt driving. :razz:

What are you running for shocks right now?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:46 am 
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The anatomy of an autox rollover on a poorly sprung car:

During sustained g's, low spring rates mean quick compression of stock springs. When coupled with race compound tires, g-loading can compress stock springs all the way to the bump stops. As soon as your bump stop is reached, your wheel rate jumps from your springrate (times a multiplier, which depends on the type of suspension you have) to something approaching infinity. So all the energy that was being absorbed by your springs (to be eventually dissipated by your dampers) now has nowhere to go... except for pushing your CG up, and hence your wheels come off the ground.

The simplest engineering solution is to increase your wheelrate. You can do that by getting stiffer springs, adding swaybars, cutting coils, etc. The only really good way is to change out your springs. Cutting coils increases your wheelrate, but decreases your travel. Swaybars are a bandaid fix to any problem, but they work and they are easy to tune.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:38 pm 
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mojojoeyjojo wrote:
Quite possibly the coolest pic on teamswift yet.... wow :shock:


second that...

you are lucky that your car is not rolling :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:06 pm 
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Ahh come on! can't you see t's a fake? He used a ramp to lift up the wheel :razz:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 pm 
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I think the best think he can do is definately get new shocks yours are pretty well worn out to shit, Like you mentions b4 KYB will do quite nicely




Steve

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:15 pm 
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Lihtan, the shocks I have on there right now are.... umm, black and don't leak :x No idea which brand, they could be the OEM ones for all I know. In Super Stock you are allowed up to 6 way adjustables, but I am first going to need to check out pricing. Can anybody tell me of places to check in Canada for KYB's at a decent price?

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:58 pm 
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KYB's are about $200, Koni's are about $500. That's US $ from Tire Rack.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:01 pm 
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if you're really poor, you can do like liam/murr first did ... get some stock/oem gt shocks and drill/refill them with 20 or 30 weight motorcycle shock oil ...
you still need to lower the car as much as allowed ...

btw, :redx:
try hosting your pics in your personal gallery here :P

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Bah, people don't like having to click links to get to pictures. I'll just keep abusing my web host by using the multiple accounts I have :twisted:

Edit-
N1tr0, I am going to do this the right way, not the cheap way. After realizing at 12:00 at night what a shitacular idea it was to try and use those spring compressors to lower the vehicle, I have decided no more cheap sh1t. Its all correct from here.

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:26 pm 
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the phoni's actually work quite well ....

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:33 pm 
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And they would be ok for summer driving? I'll have to hit Murr up on MSM tomorrow and chat.

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:55 pm 
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Twins seperated at birth?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:59 pm 
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:lol: We have to get a meet together strictly to compare our cars now!

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:15 pm 
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Observation!

Suggest the driver remove heavy rocks for brains to lower center of gravity! :rock:

Just kidiin around. I just hate to see a nice turbo car abused like that.

That pic was a lucky shot for whoever took it.

You must be both proud of yourself and freaked out at the same time.

Talk to Murr, he knows what you need to do.

If you ever roll that car, I'm gonna drive to Alberta and slap you one. :razz:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:18 pm 
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The abuse I do to it in the summer will be negated by its rest during the winter. And apparently I am not the first person this has happened to:

Quote:
the konis did more for track times then the springs... However, there is a down side fi you don't do springs. Scott ran just konis for a while on the road-course.... with the sticky R compound tires he used there was an event where he ended up on two wheels (Scott is one of those guys that can place top 10 out of 50 with a nearly stock Sprint. ). After that he bought springs.

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:12 am 
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Methinks you need to uhh... either fix the weight balance like my dad said... or umm... ahh forget it just sell me the car! LOL :rollin:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:29 am 
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HiTempguy wrote:
And they would be ok for summer driving? I'll have to hit Murr up on MSM tomorrow and chat.

it used to be a regular mod done by everyone in the pre-pressurized shocks days .. eg. datsun 510's, bmw 2002's, etc..

don't attempt to drill/refill your non-gt shocks, odds are they're pressurized

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:36 am 
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Ok, I'll check it out. I think I saw somebody with some GT struts for sale :D WHat I want to know is why the turbo 3 cars would have gas shocks and the GTi's hydraulic... I am pretty positive my shocks are the originals (the car has 175,000kms on it).

Edit-
As a small update, I have a rear swabar off of a 96' Firefly coming my way. Somebody warn me now if it won't work. I also am looking at the GTi front swaybar I have sitting around. In order to get rid of body roll, I will install it this morning if it is bigger than the stock one. If I end up getting stiffer springs instead of cutting coils, I would remove it and put the stock one back on.

Edit Again-
Ok, I am going to install the 22mm front swaybar off of a GTi, and an MK4 1996 Geo Metro rear sway bar on my car to get rid of the sway. Thats a 4mm inprovement in the front and it will be at least a 2mm improvement in the back. Coupled with drilled and filled struts plus springs and I should be good to go.

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GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


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